my hemi keeps eating its lifters..

Big Block A body Tech

  1. bellroy

    bellroy Member

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    :banghead::banghead:I have a 426 world block hemi with indy legend heads,i am on my 3rd set of lifters. I am not sure what make of lifters were in it when I got the motor,but they had a circular snap ring{C clip type},the motor started running rich one day and I could hear in the exhast something wasn't right.When I took off the intake and vally plate I found a couple lifters had lost the retaing clips and one lifter tappet had been pounded n broken. So... I ordered a new set of comp cam hydraulic flat tappet lifters and installed them{these have a stamped steel retainer plate in them}, I adjusted my valves as you normally would do, and I noticed I had to adjust the rockers quiet a bit more turns then the adjustment of the lifters I took out. Seemed to me it put a lot more angle on the push rods and rockers. Well I started it up and it was noisy as hell,so, I tore it apart again and compared the new lifters to the ones I took out,wich I realize now I should have done in the first place. Turns out the tappet height in the lifter was not the same, infact it was .080 shorter then what I took out. oh and one or two of the retainers had came off the lifter again! So I ordered a set of mopar performance lifters for a hemi with the tappet to bottom of lifter height of .588. I installed them adjusted the rockers and every thing was fine for about 3000 miles. I just installed a tti 3 inch exhaust and noticed a little tick coming from the drivers side exhaust and that it was running really rich again. So I decided to take off the intake again and check the lifters and sure enough 3 of the tappet spring retaining clips had come off! After close examination I found that my pushrods that are 7/16 dia with 3/8 tips are to big for the lifter cups and ride on the upper edge of the cup. So im having a new set made with 5/16 tips so they set all the way in the lifter tappet cups. In the mean time I order a new set of lifters from hughes engines because on their website it show that their lifters have the bottom of lifter to bottom of tappet cup height or.588 that I need and they have the heavy duty retaining clip in them. So I get them today and check them with my verina calipers and they are not the .588 that they said they were going to send me , in fact they have the same deminsions as the comp cam ones that were wrong before! The tappet is .080 shorter. So should I return these lifters and try to find the correct height ones or would I be better off adding .080 to my new pushrods? Is ther a difference between hemi and rb motor lifters..or am I completely missing something? I do not know the cam spec s other then its a hydraulic cam ,I do belive the guy who sold me the car may have had multiple hemis and took the heads of one and put them on mine not noticeing the difference in pushrods, but I really need advice because while im knowledgeable on 440's, I have a lot to learn about hemis. THANKS IN ADVANCE FOR ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE ME!:banghead::banghead::banghead:
     
  2. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Sounds to me like you should just decide which lifters you want to use and measure for a new set of pushrods. I use Smith Bro's, they'll custom make any length you want with pretty much any kind of ends you need.

    But seriously, it sounds like you've been mixing and matching lifters and pushrods, and that usually doesn't end well. How big of a cam is in that thing? Do you know the spring pressures? What rockers are you running?
     
  3. bellroy

    bellroy Member

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    I don't know the cam specs, or the spring pressure, they do have the indy roller rockers, im wondering if the push rods are from a solid lifter cam be cause I belive those are a different length then hydraulic
     
  4. perfacar

    perfacar Well-Known Member

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    hi, I think you need to find out cam specs and spring pressures. also, how do you adjust the lifters?? how much preload or lash?? best method for setting hyd lifters is on base circle at top dead center firing. also, is cam hyd or solid lifter style?? you have to know what you have to solve problems.
     
  5. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Are you sure its a hydraulic cam? How aggressive of a cam is it? Super choppy idle, low vacuum, that sort of thing? Or does it seem fairly tame? Does it have dual valve springs? Shims? Lash caps?

    I'm no expert when it comes to valvetrain stuff. But I can personally attest to things getting thrashed when all the components don't match, my 340 ate a set a Harland Sharpe aluminum roller rockers for lunch when I set it up with the wrong valvesprings based on bad advice. :banghead:

    I would be inclined to get a nice set of lifters, and then use a push rod checker to measure for a new set of pushrods. That way you can check the pattern, make sure everything is set up properly, and go from there. At least then if something goes sideways you know for sure its not the lifters or the pushrods.

    But, the only reason I'm suggesting that is because it sounds like you have some pushrod issues. Beyond that, you'll need to figure out cam specs and valve spring pressures. Which honestly would be the way to do it "right". But that may involve tearing the engine down further than you want to get into it. Of course, the flip side is that if it eats another set of lifters after you've spent good money on decent lifters and bought a custom set of pushrods you'll have to do that anyway, and you'll be into it for another set of lifters and pushrods at that point. At the least.
     
  6. IQ52

    IQ52 Well-Known Member

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    Make very sure that the pushrods aren't rubbing on the side of the block as they pass through the valley. I spend a lot of time grinding pushrod clearance in the valley on World and Indy Hemi Engines.
     
  7. jos51700

    jos51700 Green Bearing thread connoisseur

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    Wouldn't hurt to fix your "return" key while you're at it.
     
  8. bOb shingler

    bOb shingler Well-Known Member

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    the number one thing to replace in a new set of hydraulic tappets is the wire retainer. use the steel "C" clip type that takes the snap ring pliars.
     
  9. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    What are the chances that your valves are hanging up in the guides.
    Is it always the same lifters with the problems.
    Perhaps not enough lifter preload, or too much spring pressure for idle oil pressure, or not enough over the nose spring pressure allowing the pushrods to momentarily lose contact with the cups and then slap them on the way down.
    You might want to visually check the cam lobes.Maybe theyre damaged.
    Good luck
     
  10. 2059

    2059 Well-Known Member

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    Was talking to David Barton (Ray Barton Racing, Son) and he/they won't build a Race or healthy street Hemi with Hydraulic lifters as they do not live long because of push rod angle. Retainers popping out. His words, not mine.
     
  11. Dartnut

    Dartnut Don't hate me because i'm beautiful

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    Personally, i would contact someone who builds these engines for a living and go with what they reccomend for your application.
    Sounds like IQ52 has a lot of experience with them on here, as well as all other engines.
    Why not contact him and do what he says? It might cost you a new cam and lifters, push rods and rockers, as well as some clearancing on the block, as well as maybe some springs, but, it will be fixed and done right. So what if it costs you a grand or two, at least it will be reliable and it's potential maximized.
    Mike at MRL, Aruzza, or even Larry Shepard would also be go to guys if you would rather deal with someone closer.
    If you go any further, the metal shavings you are creating will eventually destroy the engine, What would that be worth?
     
  12. moper

    moper FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Like Perf and IQ said...
    Who built it and how many miles are on it? Hemis are unique, World blocks are known to have QC issues, as do Indy heads and rocker systems. To me it sounds like something in the valvetrain is screwed up... More like a head/geometry issue than a lifter issue. IQ mentioned pushrod clearance. If this is a new engine I'd definately look for other problems. The lifters being beaten apart is a sign of a problem - not the problem itself.
     
  13. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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    THIS ^^^^^^^^

    Also, if you are popping the retainers off lifters, you may not be running enough lifter preload. More food for thought.

    I will never again use hydraulic lifters with those cheapo wire retainers. Never. No how. No way. Not even on a dead stock rebuild.
     
  14. sscuda

    sscuda The best there is, the best there ever will be.

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    A lot of good advice in this thread. If I were you I would talk to one of the top 3 2nd Gen Hemi engine builders before you did anything else. FHO, Barton, and Sheppard would be my choices and in this order.

    BTW - Sounds like it a mixed bag of parts to me and your drive train wasn't well thought out by whoever threw it together.

    You bought lifters from Hughes? Really?!?!?!...Hmmmm... Walmart didn't have any??!!!!!!!O:)


    Good luck


    :glasses7:
     
  15. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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    I love it when someone doesn't hold back. LMAO That was great.
     
  16. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    Ok, school me. Whats wrong with my 8 or maybe 10 year old Hughes hydraulic lifters?
    EDIT that have been working flawlessly in my 360
     
  17. famous bob

    famous bob mopar misfit

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    mopar lifters the right oil,"pushrod clearance " the right length and size pushrods" and they are a lott diff. than the wedge engines
     
  18. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 68 B'cuda fb, Form S clone ... 367/A833/3.55s

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    What do you suppose should have happened to my engine, with those "problematic" lifters?
    And Im not understanding your previous post much. I read it 4 times, and still dont get it.Am i just that dense?I mean I am getting older, so maybe dense too.
     
  19. hangn0ut

    hangn0ut Well-Known Member

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    Did I miss something? I've always treated flat tappet cams and lifters as a matched set. Got to change the whole package. Unless you got shubecks....
     
  20. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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    New lifters on a used camshaft is a perfectly acceptable practice.
     
  21. moper

    moper FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    ^^ Yup. You just have to follow the same break in process as if the cam were brand new too.
     
  22. jonnydart440

    jonnydart440 Well-Known Member

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    Probably the best advice here. U don't know how many people don't get that, u have to repair the cause not the symptom! Its like the people who have an electrical issue and say," oh, I found it, it was a blown fuse." Well, why did the fuse blow. I work will a guy who's Chevy 350 kept chewing thru rocker studs every few months. He just kept replacing them till finally getting the advice to actually "fix" it. Ended up being something about the rocker geometry and the wrong heads. He changed the heads and never had a problem again.
     
  23. famous bob

    famous bob mopar misfit

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    forgot about the pushrod angle --2059 sugested
     
  24. Mopar Tim

    Mopar Tim FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    IMO Hemis should not be using hyd lifters. My 2 cents. As stated the angle is terrible. They came with solids for a reason. MT
     
  25. sscuda

    sscuda The best there is, the best there ever will be.

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    Top quality engine components don't come from a wholesale distributor. And especially not to be used on a Gen 2 Hemi. There are a lot of companies out there that you shouldn't buy performance parts from (or any other product), and Hughes is one of them. Nuff said!!!!

    :glasses7:
     
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