Need a driveway alignment advice after suspension overhaul- just good enough to get it to the shop?

[MRGTX]

The car is mobile again after new shocks/springs (front and rear), QA1 tubular upper/lower control arms, new torsion bars, Mancini Racing camber spacers, new lower ball joints, new (last summer but not yet sorted-out) manual steering box. I owe this forum in particular a colossal thank you for helping me bumble my way through these jobs.

So yeah. I knew that the alignment would be way off but I was a bit surprised that after a quick spin around the block, can see that I really need to do some work before I take this thing into traffic. The steering is unstable on-center, it veers left or right with a little too much steering input in a non-linear way.

So how do you guys get your cars tracking straight enough to at least not be a danger to you or others on the road? What would you adjust first?

I'm guessing that toe and caster will be the most important for the task at hand....any advice on how to adjust/eyeball these settings?

 

[67Dart273]

Hell you can align the whole thing yourself if you have a level driveway.........I don't........I jack my car trailer level and use THAT

WHAT YOU NEED......

a level spot and something to turn the tires, "turning plates" Google it. People use metal sheet, salt, grease, tile, all sorts of stuff

Caster/ camber......Caster is "figured" with some easy math from camber figures, so you need something to measure "wheel tilt."

In today's digital / laser/ world there are lots of devices right from "Home Depot" that will work for that

Toe. Easy way is if you have two people. I believe in scribing the tires, you need a solid scribe you can hold on the ground, and with the tire jacked up under the A arm, scribe a 'true' line somewhere on the tire tread. Then measure between the scribes

READ THE SHOP MANUAL. You can download them free from MyMopar

DON'T USE the shop manual specs if you have radial tires. Use the "scoch chart"

DO A SEARCH on this board. LOTS of posts about alignment. LOTS

DIY Alignment?

Need help with front end -Alignment

Front End Alignment

need alignment help!

My beat-up old Ammco caster / camber gauge. THE CASTER IS NOTHING BUT A CIRCULAR SLIDE RULE and is easy to do without. Otherwise, all the gauge does is to measure in or out wheel tilt from plumb

You can use something like this instead

My toe gauge for "one man" use. You can MAKE one easily. All it does is make a two man tape measure into a one man deal. You can see.........the car is on the trailer

 

[Frnknsteen]

Here's what I did on my Barracuda,....

Once everything was in, before tightening the LCA and Strut Rod nuts, I adjusted the LCA adjusters until I got the ride height where I wanted it, then tightened everything down. On my UCA cams, I had the front of the UCA all the way out towards the fender and the rear one all the way in towards the frame (max caster)

I then took a right angle square (the metal kind you use for construction - See attached) and stood it next to the front tires (perpendicular to the tires so you know the edge is straight up), right in front of the bulge of the tire on the bottom. That let me get a rough estimate of Camber. I adjusted the UCA bushings until the tire was leaning away from the square (towards the motor) about a half a fingers width.

Once I did that to both sides, I took a tape measure and measured the distance from tire to tire on the front and back of the front tires. I measure up as high as I could so I was measuring at the same height on the front and the back. I adjusted the tie rods until I had 1/16-1/8" shorter distance on the front than on the back. It still wandered a little, but it was good enough to get me to the alignment shop.

I used the Moog Offset UCA bushings so I ended up getting more caster than I needed, but to the alignment shops defense, I told them I wanted .5 - 1 degree of negative camber and as much offset as they could get. Attached are the screenshots from the alignment machine pre and post alignment. It wasn't too far off, but toe-in the was the most off. It drove great once they got it all balanced out. Tracked straight and no more wandering.

 

[67Dart273]

1.......Set ride height

2........"Rough set" toe so wheels are at least "appearance straight"

3.......Argue endlessly with caster/ camber. You will have to compromise caster to get camber where you want

4......Set toe. Jounce car between measurements, test drive, and then recheck settings AGAIN

 

[j par]

Here's what I did....
I drove it up onto the car trailer and took it to the alignment shop drove it back up onto the car trailer and took it back home. The car trailer cost about $55 at U-Haul if you need to borrow one.
I mean after all those hundreds of dollars spent you do plan on taking it for a $79 computer lineup correct?

 

[72bluNblu]

Before I got my alignment equipment I just used the method described by frknsteen. Use the camber bolts to push the UCA arm all the out in the front and pull it all the way in at the back. Then I would just eyeball the camber, -1* of camber is about the point where the tires start to look tipped in. I’d make any adjustments needed to make the camber look close to the same. Then I’d set the toe. You can just use a couple of 2x4’s, lay them up against the sidewall, then measure across the front and rear of the tires.

The tie is the most important setting for a drive to the alignment shop, it’s the biggest tire wearing component. The caster can make it feel unstable, and both the caster and camber can make it pull if there’s a large difference side to side, but neither of them are really tire wearing unless they’re way off.

The only thing is I don’t know how those camber spacers will effect things. Usually just setting max caster on the UCA’s put the camber slightly negative. Those spacers add like -2* of camber, so you might have to alter that method. You don’t even want more than -1* camber, you might have to back off the caster to get the camber decent. Which isn’t what you want. That component will depend on your ride height though.

 

[j par]

I'm very much a do it yourself person and definitely broomsticked my power wagon and even bought a cheap press to do my own bushings. But the alignment, the new windshield, and Balancing the Driveline I felt we're one-time things that were better left paid for. Not that I feel like I couldn't, I guess it's where I draw the necessary equipment for hobbyist line.
And still need the $79 alignment?

 

[72bluNblu]

I'm very much a do it yourself person and definitely broomsticked my power wagon and even bought a cheap press to do my own bushings. But the alignment, the new windshield, and Balancing the Driveline I felt we're one-time things that were better left paid for. Not that I feel like I couldn't, I guess it's where I draw the necessary equipment for hobbyist line.
And still need the $79 alignment?

Yeah I but I don’t get the alignment anymore. I bought turntables, a caster/camber gauge and a set of toe plates and do the whole thing myself. The number of alignment shops around here that will even set the alignment to something other than factory specs is getting pretty small, and even at those shops the alignment techs usually don’t know anything about Mopars. Now I don’t need them at all, I can set whatever specs I want and don’t have to explain anything to a tech that just wants the computer to show green.

All it takes to rough it in like I described is 15 minutes, a tape measure and a couple of 2x4’s. That’s no big expense.

 

[j par]

Yeah I but I don’t get the alignment anymore. I bought turntables, a caster/camber gauge and a set of toe plates and do the whole thing myself. The number of alignment shops around here that will even set the alignment to something other than factory specs is getting pretty small, and even at those shops the alignment techs usually don’t know anything about Mopars. Now I don’t need them at all, I can set whatever specs I want and don’t have to explain anything to a tech that just wants the computer to show green.

All it takes to rough it in like I described is 15 minutes, a tape measure and a couple of 2x4’s. That’s no big expense.

Now don't think your knowledge has been lost on dead ears! What I did was listen to you and some other people I think maybe like 70aarcuda or somebody I trusted when I was rebuilding my front end and this was discussed in these camber and Caster numbers were discussed. I took your knowledge to an old high school buddy of mine who works at a lineup shop and showed him my phone of some of the numbers you guys have shown me and he set my alignment up the best he could with that information. So I've kind of used The Best of Both Worlds if you will.

 

[MRGTX]

Made adjustments as described, had to correct a bunch of toe-out. Lining it up by eye actually did the trick. It drives surprisingly ok now!

Thanks so much, everyone!

So with the UCAs adjusted for max caster (or close to it), I still have a metric-**** ton of negative camber. You can see it easily. So...those shims may be coming out sooner rather than later.

 

[jos51700]

Slap **** tires on it and roll. You'll appreciate a good alignment more that way.

 

[72bluNblu]

Made adjustments as described, had to correct a bunch of toe-out. Lining it up by eye actually did the trick. It drives surprisingly ok now!

Thanks so much, everyone!

So with the UCAs adjusted for max caster (or close to it), I still have a metric-**** ton of negative camber. You can see it easily. So...those shims may be coming out sooner rather than later.

Yeah negative camber was never something I had a problem getting, part of that is the lowered ride height. Positive caster is harder to come by. But even adjusted for max positive caster I usually still have plenty of negative camber. Those shims might be a good trick for going autoX'ing, bump your negative camber from a streetable -.5* to -1* to a race only -2.5* to -3*. But to get into the range needed for a street car I don't see them being necessary.

Slap **** tires on it and roll. You'll appreciate a good alignment more that way.

Yeah that's fine unless your toe is off by more than just a hair. It doesn't even take that much toe (in or out) to wreck a set of tires in short order.

 

[rednesss]

Grab 2 pieces of 1/2" EMT 10' long, drill holes in them the exact distance apart for the front one and the back one, string fishing line through the holes and set the EMT on jack stands in front of the bumper and in the rear, and then align them to the rear wheels so that they are parallel to the rear axle. Then measure the distance between the fishing line in the front of the front wheel, and the back of the front wheel, and subtract. So if you measure 3-1/16" in front of the front tire, and 3" on the rear of the front tire on the rim, and it's the same on both sides, driver's/passenger, you would then have a 1/8" toe in (1/16" on drivers plus 1"16" on passenger), which is a hair more than I usually run. But you get the idea.

 

[dartfreak75]

Yeah negative camber was never something I had a problem getting, part of that is the lowered ride height. Positive caster is harder to come by. But even adjusted for max positive caster I usually still have plenty of negative camber. Those shims might be a good trick for going autoX'ing, bump your negative camber from a streetable -.5* to -1* to a race only -2.5* to -3*. But to get into the range needed for a street car I don't see them being necessary.



Yeah that's fine unless your toe is off by more than just a hair. It doesn't even take that much toe (in or out) to wreck a set of tires in short order.

What would cause the inside of the tire to wear toe in?

 

[Dartswinger70]

Once you get it to the shop, good luck finding a youngster that knows how to set anything other than toe....you are better off getting it as close to spec as you can yourself.

 

[jbc426]

1.......Set ride height

2........"Rough set" toe so wheels are at least "appearance straight"

3.......Argue endlessly with caster/ camber. You will have to compromise caster to get camber where you want

4......Set toe. Jounce car between measurements, test drive, and then recheck settings AGAIN

This.

I use a small 10" bubble level to get the wheels straight up and down and a tape measure to set the toe in at about 1/8" toe in (front of tire closer together than the rear of the tire).

I've found the back of the upper control arm usually goes almost all the way in and the front of the upper control arm goes more outward.

Did you use adjustable strut rods? They can really add positive caster, but be careful not to get the front of the tire hitting the front fender skirt.

 

[72bluNblu]

What would cause the inside of the tire to wear toe in?

It’s either a toe issue or a negative camber issue. If it happened in a short amount of time it’s a toe problem.

If it happened slowly over a long time and the tires look tipped in at the top it could be too much negative camber, but it would have to be more than -1* of camber and that would be obvious just looking at the angle of the tires. Even with -1* camber the tires looked tipped in at the tops, and -1* won’t wear out the tires.