need feedback on clutch vs flex fan and shroud

Discussion in 'Small Block Mopar Engine' started by kybatman, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. kybatman

    kybatman Well-Known Member

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    So,

    A bit pissed after yesterday while putting the car back in my garage, my electric fans do not come on.

    Looking for ideas on a non electric based setup for my dart.

    Should i source flex or clutch fan?

    Here are the details.
    1969 Dart GT
    1979 LA360
    Champion EC2374 22" radiator.

    The part number I found for a shroud is:
    1. 2998325 Shroud is for a small block V8 A body with a 22" core and A/C, my car is non A/c not that it probably matters.



    I would appreciate feedback and possible parts.

    Thanks,
    Bruce
     
  2. kybatman

    kybatman Well-Known Member

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    Also,

    distance between water pump pulley and radiator fins in 4 1/4 inches.

    Bruce
     
  3. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    Without knowing what/how your electric fan setup is made, it is impossible to say if it is worth fixing or ready for the dumpster. Some work great and some are next to useless. Pix?

    Flex fans: Avoid stainless balded fans. They usually crack the blades and eventually fail if not caught, often with disastrous results.
     
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    • kybatman

      kybatman Well-Known Member

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      sorry should have added..

      non A/c Car
      Hayden dual fan controller
      set at 185 both on.
      2002 Ford Contour dual electric fans

      :)
       
    • Hellrats

      Hellrats Still wrenching after all these years FABO Gold Member

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      I vote fan clutch. I had a flex fan come apart.
       
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      • krazykuda

        krazykuda FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member Technical Editor

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        Stay away from flex fans....
         
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        • nm9stheham

          nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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          Well, those are supposed to be a good fan set. So I would try to make them work. Do you have a voltmeter? This control setup is not all that hard to troubleshoot.

          BTW, nylon flex fans are fine, and I've never had a problem with the fiberglass-bladed one I used for a long time. It is just the SS blades that seem problematic.
           
        • Hellrats

          Hellrats Still wrenching after all these years FABO Gold Member

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          A fiberglass flex fan was what came apart and sawed up my radiator. It separated from the rivets when I was getting on the highway. Never again for me.
           
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          • famous bob

            famous bob mopar misfit

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            I`ve got a long and a short clutch, with a 6 blade factory polished aluminum fan that will fit either one , the short clutch (2 5/8" long) is new w/ about 30 minutes on it, the long (3 1/4") is in great shape , but I`ve never ran it , don't have that much room. Also have 2 , 17" flex fans, one is a 10,000 rpm job, the other, I have no clue. Also have 3 elec. fans , one 15", two 14" which are about new, with a relay that will run both of them.
            Can send phone pics If ur interested.
             
          • kybatman

            kybatman Well-Known Member

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            I can understand that..

            I did a $#!T pile of research here on FABO 4 years ago before chose the setup I have.

            Now I have zero confidence in it.. had I been out away from home it would have been a nightmare.


            just checked the Hayden 3650-01 controller connections with the relay out and it has power at the 87/87a and 30 positions with the key off.

            obviously the 85 and 86 positions are controlled by secondary temp sending unit.

            Bruce
             
          • kybatman

            kybatman Well-Known Member

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            Bob,

            please send the pics. I am not sure which one is going to be what i need on the clutches though.

            I am looking at this shroud though.

            It uses a 16" fan electric, but i am thinking a manual fan could still be used..

            calling them in the morning.


            2374FS16

            2374shroud16.png
             
          • Wyrmrider

            Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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            bottom line is that a thermostatically controlled clutch and a 7 blade fan (conventional) 9 blade (reverse) work the best
            save the electric for a light duty application like no stop and go with the ac on, no towing,
            I use electric for supplemental pusher only- makes the ac work better and better trans cooling in stop and go when the temp through the fins is not enough to activate the clutch
            clutches come in different activation ranges My Dakota (reverse) changed from a 185 to 195 degree activation and from a 7 blade 3" pitch to a 9 blade 2 1/2 inch pitch
            GM is now using an 11 blade fan which I am going to test next summer
             
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            • kybatman

              kybatman Well-Known Member

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              Here is a pic of the setup..

              Bruce

              20150625_162951.jpg
               
            • kursplat

              kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              (flame on) a pusher just gets in the way of the air flow for the mech fan(flame off). edit: looks like the water pump pulley is much larger than the crank pulley.
               
            • kybatman

              kybatman Well-Known Member

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              This is the pulley kit I bought.
              https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0057H89DG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

              And you are correct:
              • Water Pump Pulley: 1 V-Belt Groove, 6.4" Dia, 3.1" Length
              • Crank Pulley: 2 V-Belt Groove, 5.2" Dia, 3.2" Length and 6 bolt pattern
              Bruce

              CVF Pulleys.jpg
               
            • nm9stheham

              nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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              Dumb question OP: Did you run the engine long enough to get it up to temp so that the controller would turn the fans on? If you just started it up and moved it into the garage, it would/should not turn either fan on.
               
            • kursplat

              kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              thanks, made me wonder if you've had any cooling issues
               
            • dgibby

              dgibby Well-Known Member

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              Good luck with the electric fans. I know lots of people have good luck with them but I could never keep mine cool.
              I started with my 340, factory 2 core, tried a single pusher, tried a puller, tried duals, always ran hot. Bought the same radiator as you but a 3 core same problem with electrich fans. Switched to a factory 5 blade and 325 shroud and Hayden hot rod fan clutch. Problem solved 180-200 degrees max. Dropped in a 408 and it cools the same. I broke a motor mount and shattered the shroud so for punishment I tried the duals again and to ran too hot. Ended up with a aluminium 325 shroud from wizard cooling and back down to normal temps.
              hayden hotrod fan clutch - Google Search:

              1970-73 22" Mopar Applications w/ OEM Style Shroud



              P
               
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              • AJ/FormS

                AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

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                Unrelated but underdriving the waterpump is never a good idea.
                I always recommend to direct drive your 7-blade fan until you get your cooling system sorted out, and are confident in it's ability to do the job.If you don't already have one, your pump should be wearing an anti-cavitation plate, and the stat should be an hi-flow type.After that you can start experimenting.
                When you get to clutches, the Thermostatic is the way to go.
                 
                Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
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                • nm9stheham

                  nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                  Success with electrics 100% depends on the fans used. there are some good ones (like the OEM designed Contour)..... and then there are the ones sold aftermarket. The flow of many of those drops into the toilet when placed behind or in front of a radiator. I rallied for years with a turbo charged Mitsubishi Starion, 275 HP from a 2.6L, and the 2 original electric fans did just fine for cooling. (Very similar to the Controur setup, with similar fat-bladed fans.)

                  Some are great, some are awful.
                   
                • kybatman

                  kybatman Well-Known Member

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                  Not a silly question, but yes i ran the engine past the point where the fans should have come.

                  Also just an fyi, the entire system was fully functioning 3 weeks ago.

                  Bruce
                   
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                  • famous bob

                    famous bob mopar misfit

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                    I don`t know how much h.p. ur trying to cool, but that single 16" wouldn`t cool my 440/505----------------------P M me ur phone # for pics.
                     
                  • famous bob

                    famous bob mopar misfit

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                    the 10,000 rpm flexfans have an added stiffener to stop that.
                     
                  • nm9stheham

                    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                    Got a pix or PN? I would fear that a stiffener would just move the point of maximum flax, and thus where cracking occured, unless it was done in a certain way.
                     
                  • famous bob

                    famous bob mopar misfit

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                    I have that short one 'brand new". ran for about 18miles to prayer breakfast and back .
                    for sale.