Need more help re: 440 conversion from A/C to non-A/C V-belt drive

Discussion in 'Big Block A body Tech' started by Bill Crowell, Jul 11, 2018.

  1. Bill Crowell

    Bill Crowell Well-Known Member

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    Hello, everyone. I am sorry to have to ask your help again concerning the reassembly of the 440 in my '78 D300. I bought and installed the non-A/C brackets for the P/S pump and mounted the pump.

    I have a 4-groove front pulley. The P/S pump pulley wants to run in the second engine pulley groove, counting from the groove closest to the engine.

    The problem is that both the P/S pump and the alternator want to run in the first two grooves of the front pulley, while my old water pump pulley only engages the outer two grooves of the front pulley, so there is nothing to drive the water pump.

    I guess I have the wrong water pump pulley, and need a deeper one?? But even then, there's only gonna be room for one more groove before it hits the water pump, so I am going to need another groove because the alternator and P/S pump need to be driven by different grooves, right??

    Pictures attached.

    I sure would appreciate it if some of you 440 gurus could tell me what I am doing wrong. Thank you very kindly.

    engine1 7-11-2018.jpg

    engine2 7-11-2018.jpg
     
  2. Dubob

    Dubob Well-Known Member

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    BD92758C-2B95-48AE-AB1E-2CA9CF80CE40.jpeg Hi Bill. The p/s pump runs by itself off the crank pulley. The w/p, alternator run together but seperate from p/s. The pulley on the w/p is for ac. You need the single groove deeper

    Water Pump Pulley - Non A/C - New Reproduction-440 Source

    And I would also do the crank pulley as a set.

    Double Groove Crank Pulley - New Reproduction-440 Source

    I used the single crank on mine but I don’t have p/s. May be able to find used ones but I figured the repros being from same supplier would match better. Haven’t thrown a belt yet. You may get away with just the w/p pulley and have it work with your crank pulley.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  3. Bill Crowell

    Bill Crowell Well-Known Member

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    You guys probably already knew this, but I discovered that you have to switch both the power steering pump and the alternator mounting brackets to the non-A/C type in order to obtain the correct pulley alignment. This in turn requires a non-A/C water pump pulley because the water pump pulley must be larger and deeper in order to clear the front of the water pump so you can move its groove rearward for the correct alignment. Then the larger water pump pulley requires a smaller crank pulley to provide clearance between them.

    So you've got to replace all the bracketry and both pulleys. I ordered everything from 440Source. They had it all in stock as new repros, shipped it out really quick, and their prices were competitive. I expect to receive everything today, and will follow up when it is installed.
     
  4. famous bob

    famous bob mopar misfit

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    A smaller crank pulley will slow the other pulleys down. A bigger w/pump pulley will speed the pump up. Let us know what the final ratio is , if u can. Interesting.
     
  5. Bill Crowell

    Bill Crowell Well-Known Member

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    I did install all the brackets, pulleys and bolt sets that I got from 440 Source, but I must be doing something wrong with the P/S pump.

    First let me say that the way the Chrysler engineers set up the V-belt drive on the non-A/C 440 was pretty slick. The two grooves on the crank pulley are of different diameter, and the water pump and alternator are driven by the inside pulley. The W/P pulley has only one groove. The P/S/ pump is supposed to line up with the outside groove of the crank pulley and be direct-driven. That's my problem.

    I've got the W/P pulley and the alternator aligned with the inside crank pulley groove, with almost no problem (see pictures; I did have to grind the ridge off the OE W/P mounting bolts in order to obtain enough clearance for the W/P pulley). However, the P/S pump pulley aligns more or less with the inside crank pulley groove, too. No go.

    Am I using the wrong P/S/ pump pulley? Or am I supposed to move the P/S pulley over somehow? Maybe space the P/S pump over?

    Sure would appreciate more advice. If nobody knows, I'll call 440 Source on Monday morning and ask them.

    engine1 7-14-2018.jpg

    engine2 7-14-2018.jpg

    bolt.jpg
     
  6. 5.7 hemi

    5.7 hemi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    You’ve got the wrong pulley on the ps pump.
     
  7. Bill Crowell

    Bill Crowell Well-Known Member

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    Thanks a lot, 5.7!!
     
  8. 5.7 hemi

    5.7 hemi FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    No problem