need some input on a budget 318 build

[lilredridinghoo]

that´s just a question to get some input, what could/shoud be used on my 318, which should replace the 273 sitting in the fish

here are my basics

Engine
-318 from 1969 (pulled out of a 1969 charger) 0.030 over (engine was rebuild to standard specs. in the states about 1100 miles before, Flat topped pistons etc...)

Drive-Train
-Stock Converter
-904 Pushbutton Tranny
-8 3/4 Rear with 3,23:1 (Nitro-Gear-Suregrip)



parts i have laying around in the cellar or i will use from the current 273
- a mopar - windage tray to use (new)
- an edelbrock RPM-Performer Intake (dual) (new)
- FBO - Ignition (out of my fish - will swap it from the 273 to the 318)
- a 525cfm RoadDemon jr.

Exhaust - the plan is: to fabricate some hand-made headers (i knew my mate who has to weld them, would hate me :-D. 1 3/4 tubes 3" collector, and 2,5" dual pipes with low restriction mufflers)

as Mopar-Heads are not really available on the cheap side in Germany (and due to the budget), i´d decided to stay with a pair of 318 Heads (cast. 2843675) and spended some hours porting them as far as i dare to go with my grinder (gasket matching, opening the runner a little bit, a bit grinding in the bowl and smooting the valve guide)

now it comes to points to think about cam and lifters... what would you recommend - the car would be used on the street (most of the times) but should also be able to get some respectable times on the strip.

every input is appreciated - the goal is to show the chebby-guys here in Germany how old Mopars can perform....

 

[360duster]

Hi Timo!

are the pistons down in the hole a lot? if so check where your compression is with this heads. Sometimes the chambers are too big to get proper ratio.

Camshaft: i never used this one but i heard guys talking positive about the XE268 from Comp Cams, should be a good one to use i a setup like this.

This engine could use some help from another gears like 3.55 and up. I saw corys 318 run 13.6 with the help of a high stall converter and 4.10s (with magnums / crosswind intake / 600 DP carb).

See ya at the strip! (maybe 2011? 8)).

Michael

 

[lilredridinghoo]

hi Michael - i messured between 63 and 65 cc on the chambers (decided to use "your old heads")
- the pistons are about 1,5/2 mm under deck ... so i guess (calculated) i will end up with 9.5 CR or somewhat around (depends on the head gasket i will/can use)

 

[rumblefish360]

Timo, welcome aboard!

The exact depth of the piston should be measured. This would be in thousands of an inch. (.050 or .080) You'll need the proper gauge for this. It kind of stinks because the American way of measuring these things is different than how you do it. I do not have a conversion table at the ready.

Compresion is a key item to have and part of the combonation that makes things tick.

I would use 1-5/8 tube for headers.
Can you or will you change the gear ratio in the rear? And the stall converter, will it remain stock?

 

[lilredridinghoo]

Timo, welcome aboard!

The exact depth of the piston should be measured. This would be in thousands of an inch. (.050 or .080) You'll need the proper gauge for this. It kind of stinks because the American way of measuring these things is different than how you do it. I do not have a conversion table at the ready.

Compresion is a key item to have and part of the combonation that makes things tick.

I would use 1-5/8 tube for headers.
Can you or will you change the gear ratio in the rear? And the stall converter, will it remain stock?

thanx


- conc. CR i used this link to get some figures
http://www.csgnetwork.com/compcalc.html

as long as flat pistons are used it would be not so complicated to calgulate CR as it will get with domed pistons

these are the numbers i´m playing with..

3.94" boresize
3,312" piston stroke
4.180" head gasket bore dia (guess this is the most common size)
0.039" head gasket thickness (somewhat between an expensive 0.020" and the cheapest one 0.052"
63.5 cc chamber size
0.0381" piston under deck (translated from 1,5 mm)

the result should be somewhat about 9.28 CR

( your right if you force me to measure the under deck clearance exactly, the currently numbers are measured with a steel rule - so i have to check for a proper gauge to get it in a correct way)

conc. the rear and the converter...if possible i will keep them, cause normally i do a lot of miles/kilometers on the German Autobahn to reach as much Mopar(or US-Car-)events as possible.... distances between 200 and 300 are normal, i also use the fish to travel somewhere in europe (Italy, Swiss, Austria which means about 600 miles)

conc. the header tubes.... a "weld yourself" kit with 1 3/4 tubes is allready purchased last year and since that it is sitting in the garage waiting to be fixed
http://www.speedwaymotors.com/Mopar-Header-Kits,3841.html

 

[Snake]

Chuck the 318 and get a 340 or 360.

 

[lilredridinghoo]

Chuck the 318 and get a 340 or 360.

sorry - no option

 

[dodgetkboy78]

sorry - no option

Some failed reading and comprehension......... LOL

 

[360duster]

HI Timo, just to make your calculations more precise: 1,5 mm = 0,059 Inches...:-D try again.

I personally like the 318, keep it and make it run!

Michael

 

[lilredridinghoo]

HI Timo, just to make your calculations more precise: 1,5 mm = 0,059 Inches...:-D try again.

I personally like the 318, keep it and make it run!

Michael

damn you´re right :bootysha: with both issues 0.059 and with the 318:-D

 

[64physhy]

.059 sounds about right. That's about what mine was when I measured it. If it's in your budget, you should get it decked to .000, or close to it. A COMP XE268 or XE274 would be good if you get it decked. If you don't deck it, probably a XE262 or XE268. A lunati 60402 would work well, too.

 

[lilredridinghoo]

hi folks, just to bother you again with my curios thoughts...


due to the fact that one of the orig. 030 pistons is damaged... it comes to a new decision... after taking with some other mates here in Germany, i will go ahead and buy some domed KB-Pistons, that should raise up the CR enormous (guess 10,8 to 11.3 depending on headgasket)

due to that fact..... it´s time for brainstorming again regarding the right camshaft

hughes
lunati
what about those sold by doughherbert
isky (seems to radical imo )

would like to have a nice rumble but not to strange, car should still be useable on street and city

 

[360duster]

Hi Timo,

be careful with high compression ratio, open chamber heads and relatively small cams - especially since our pump gas is not rated the same as in US. I personally would not go farther than 10:1.

I have 7 used flat tops from a 318 / .030" over at home, you can get them for free (christmas present ). Will check if i find a part no and if they are ok. I damaged one when i tried to disassemble the rod, so the rods are there also.

A much bigger cam will also dictate some other changes with your engine: rear end ratio, converter stall and driveability. So i would choose sth. around 230° at .050" if you like to stay with what you have.

Michael

 

[360duster]

Pistons are these:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/STL-285AP30/

i have some that are in usable condition, just let me know if you want them.

Michael

 

[1wild&crazyguy]

hi Michael - i messured between 63 and 65 cc on the chambers (decided to use "your old heads")
- the pistons are about 1,5/2 mm under deck ... so i guess (calculated) i will end up with 9.5 CR or somewhat around (depends on the head gasket i will/can use)

make the chamber cc's even, a couple of cc's could equal a 5psi diff.
so number them for reference and measure them all and write down the findings.
when you/if you have to open a few chambers up bigger, the 1st thing I would do is bolt them onto the bare block and mark them R/L, then spin the motor upside down and look to see how much of the heads chamber edge is protruding/hanging into the bore...you can use a scribe and just use the bore as your guide.

once this is done, then look at the smaller chambers to see if there is a large margin between the scribed line and chamber edge, the one that are small I would open to the scribed line as it takes to get that chamber size up to the largest measured.


When going all out I open them all up to the bore size and then do my milling to the desired cc.

 

[72bluNblu]

I tried plugging some numbers into that compression calculator, its not the most user friendly is it?

But with the KB pistons your compression ratio won't be as high as you stated (11:1). On your compression calculator, you have to enter the piston head volume as -, the 5 cc figure for the KB 167's is the volume of the valve reliefs, not the value of the dome. KB 167's are also flat tops, they just have a higher compression distance to fix the pistons being down in the hole. Ideally, they would end up being 0 deck pistons. In reality, they usually still sit down in the hole a few thousandths, but they're still much closer than the stockers.

With these numbers

3.94" bore
3.31" stroke
4.18" gasket bore diameter
.039" compressed thickness
"0" for deck clearance (optimistic, its still probably a couple thousandths)
5cc piston volume (enter as negative on the CSG network calculator)
65 cc chambers

you get a compression ration of 9.4:1. If the heads are 63 cc chambers, you get 9.6:1. Compression ration with the stock pistons .059" down in the hole would be 8.7 or 8.9:1, depending on a 65 or 63 cc chamber.

I use KB's compression ratio calculator. It also will calculate your dynamic compression if you input the cam info. If you do switch, just enter the 5 cc piston volume as 5 cc's.

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/calc.php?action=comp

As far as the cam goes, I like the Lunati Voodoo series. A 60402 is a good cam for a mild/moderate street engine. A 60403 would also be a good choice, its a little more aggressive, but would help take advantage of the ported heads.

 

[rumblefish360]

Some failed reading and comprehension......... LOL

That is probably because he's working with what he's got and getting another engine is not an option, not what was available in the car at production time.

Chuck the 318 and get a 340 or 360.

Thanks for helping Snake.....not!

 

[2 Darts]

If the engine is going in the fish in the background in your avatar, I hope you've considered the problems of running dual exhausts on a 60-66 A-body. The rear TB crossmember is only notched on the drivers' side. Of course you can run a pipe under the crossmember on the passenger side, but it is very vulnerable to being crushed.

I've seen some ½-fast solutions to this. In my mind, however, the slickest was a fellow who used a Y, 3" pipes, and a race muffler single exhaust. If sounded fabulous. You may have TÜV issues with that particular setup, but you get the idea.

Many good memories of South Germany courtesy of Uncle Sam. Best of luck to you with the project.

 

[Dr340w2]

I have had several 318's. Mopar Performance 474 lift 280 duration works really really well for what your doing.

 

[lilredridinghoo]

thanks all for your help, and your input

@72bluNblu - i thinking about using the KB399 domed pistons

http://www.kb-silvolite.com/kb_car/performance.php?action=details&P_id=398

also your sugg. with the lunati cams sound good.

@2 Darts - yes the comb should went into the early fish. and i also know that it would be "a pain in the a..se" to make everything fit cause of the narrow engine bay and also the very small gaps between torsionbars, starter, steering column etc. even the issue with the tranny-cross-member (maybe i have to notch it) we will see (especially my metalworking friend will see)


@DR340w2 do you have a part number for this cam


to all FABO member outthere.... anyone ever used one of these HowardsCams

http://www.howardscams.com/index.ph...rt&page=shop.browse&category_id=164&Itemid=37


@Michael 360Duster - was würdest Du denn für die Kolben haben wollen ? Würde die denk ich auf jeden Fall nehmen, egal wohin mich mein Weg führt, bin da grad echt noch unentschlossen.