New Build Advice Needed

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Broke Farmer

FABO Gold Member
FABO Gold Member
Joined
Jul 19, 2021
Messages
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Location
Indiana
So, my son and I are doing a new build after putting together my old 69 Dart 440 car. Wanting to do turbo fuel injection project.
Looking for 250-300 hp
Heading to Mopar Nationals next week and looking for “stuff” and knowledge for the build.
Car : 1964 Dart Convertible
Block - 2806830-7 1714 BH
(Obviously not original)
Transmission 904 push button. Want to keep with adapter ring for late model snout.
- would really like convertor recommendations -
We will go through transmission.

Rear end - just finished narrowed 8 3/4 489 case with 3:23 gear and mini tub. New XHD leaf springs. Shocks not purchased

Front end - Qa1 upper and lower control arms and strut rods. Hotchkiss street shocks

Brakes 4 wheel disc.

given the set up what would YOU do to this 225 slant 6 for

Rods?
Pistons?
Wrist Pins?
Cam?
Convertor?
Valves?
Springs?
Turbo?
Fuel Injection system?
Intake?
Exhaust?

I’m an old guy that only thought these belonged in trucks. After coming back 30 years later I’m amazed at what’s out there to make these sing.

Any input greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

CC5FBD2D-ED82-4089-B57D-CA3B13A6D13A.jpeg
 
There is an Engine Masters episode with Steve Dulcich's blown 225. It is available on the Motor Trend streaming service. It worked well but needed an upgraded head gasket.
 
Has the torque storm proven reliable?
I’m brand new to this type of combination.
Past experience with turbo diesel dump trucks and tractors but not small displacement gassers.
Turbo seemed the way to go for reliability and cost effectiveness for the bang but supercharging is not out of the equation
 
Just don't "Build back better" cause dat chit don't work. lol
 
Ha. That’s a fact!! I’m just updating to some more modern developments in shocks and chassis.

just want to start with the engine at the foundation. I’m big on spending money on the machine work and having the overall system thought through rather than bolt on parts that won’t live or coexist with chosen piston ring head combo etc.
since I’m new to the slant I want to build strong from bottom up.
I came up on ripping these out and putting in big blocks.
But now I’m intrigued by what has happened mechanically with the advent of CNC and engineering developments for this engine in the last 30 years since I’ve been away.
Besides doing it with my son and having common ground is priceless.
 
Nitrios...
Can’t put it on the bottle. I just don’t think I or my 17 year old some who will be driving this can stop from absolutely blowing it to kingdom come.
Moderation isn’t my thing so if I build a mechanical system knowing it’s parameters I’m less likely to get in trouble!
 
Can’t put it on the bottle. I just don’t think I or my 17 year old some who will be driving this can stop from absolutely blowing it to kingdom come.
Moderation isn’t my thing so if I build a mechanical system knowing it’s parameters I’m less likely to get in trouble!
It would take 150 shot no problem...
 
The 225 has a long stroke and a well-supported crank; it's a natural for super/turbo charging.
I cannot recall ever seeing a pair of small turbos fit into the available space; the light-weight-A would really sing.
Ok, that's my dream,lol.
 
You need to seriously consider the head mounting and gasket availability. Studs and a custom cometic gasket are necessary. That’s the weakest link in the slant for boost. Stock bottom end and any forged piston with big ring gaps will suffice. Good machine work, IE round straight bores and flat decks. Some kind of boost referenced timing control, (msd6btm) is mandatory if you’re going to drive it. More fuel pump than you think you need. Garret has a great turbo sizing calculator online for picking a turbo. Lots of guys use the Cummins hx35 but imo there are better options. Intercooler is mandatory for anything more than baby boost 4,5psi.
 
300hp seems to be the magic number everyone wants to hit naturally aspirated. A lot think they have, but in reality it's pretty tough. Not impossible, but damned tough.

I have my "next motor" on the stand. 198 long rods, 2.2 4cyl pistons, factory closed chamber prototype head with 318 valves. Block has been decked to .010" in the hole, so there'll be plenty of quench. I'm not trying to hit a certain number, I'm just building a solid, strong slant 6.

However, if I were trying to hit the number, I think I would back up and use a cast crank engine. Much lighter rotating mass. Cast cranks will stand 500hp, so plenty of room there. Probably not happen now, as I'm too far into this one, but that's what I'd do if I was looking for numbers. Which I'm not. I'm lookin for fun.
 
All of that is great information and thanks so much!

250-300 hp is a “number” that I was thinking because we currently have a little Toyota car that makes about 250hp with a 3.5L front wheel drive and it’s a blast to drive.
I once owned a BMW M3 that was a little roller skate and I think it was about 300 with it’s in line 6.
I just thought that level of power with a broad torque range of a slant 6 in something you don’t see every day would be super cool and different. (And yep, it sure costs more to be different)

my general thoughts are fuel injected and turbo slant. What guts does the short block need to hold up? Cam selection? Vendors?
Head? Spring pressure? Porting I get but does it need oversized valves or is a good angle job enough with a balanced engine?

the intercooler I get is key.

I’m not knowledgeable yet about the “long rod” using the 198 rod?

I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to have a torque convertor custom made.

I intend to keep the old push button trans but I know from my old stock eliminator days that a properly built 904 with handle 300hp because everyone was using those guts behind big block cars in the 80s.

Keep the information coming please. Learning a ton!
 
On a slant, 300 is hard even with boost.
I didn't want to sound too negative, because there's always that one or two that will argue you into oblivion they did it and got 36MPG doin it.
 
All of that is great information and thanks so much!

250-300 hp is a “number” that I was thinking because we currently have a little Toyota car that makes about 250hp with a 3.5L front wheel drive and it’s a blast to drive.
I once owned a BMW M3 that was a little roller skate and I think it was about 300 with it’s in line 6.
I just thought that level of power with a broad torque range of a slant 6 in something you don’t see every day would be super cool and different. (And yep, it sure costs more to be different)

my general thoughts are fuel injected and turbo slant. What guts does the short block need to hold up? Cam selection? Vendors?
Head? Spring pressure? Porting I get but does it need oversized valves or is a good angle job enough with a balanced engine?

the intercooler I get is key.

I’m not knowledgeable yet about the “long rod” using the 198 rod?

I’m pretty sure I’m going to have to have a torque convertor custom made.

I intend to keep the old push button trans but I know from my old stock eliminator days that a properly built 904 with handle 300hp because everyone was using those guts behind big block cars in the 80s.

Keep the information coming please. Learning a ton!
The long rod build is using the longer (7.005") 198 connecting rod coupled with the 2.2 Chrysler 4cyl piston. That can achieve zero deck height and give a nice boost in compression. Wiseco makes a nice forged piston and Molnar makes some nice connecting rods for the build. You also get a greater rod to stroke ratio. I chose to use the dished turbo pistons on my build, because it's a street engine. It'll end up about 9.3. The dish leaves about 1/2" or so ring around the top of the piston that will get to .010" below deck, so I'll still have quench with this closed chamber head I found.
I Might Have Found Something Pretty Cool.....
 
I didn't want to sound too negative, because there's always that one or two that will argue you into oblivion they did it and got 36MPG doin it.


All good. I know I’m a dumb arse for even going down this road! Why keep it simple? Make it as hard as it possibly can be so I feel like I did something. BUT my son wants a streetable car so I’m trying to find a way to do it. That 250 hp Camry is quicker than snot and weighs a thousand pounds more. Which brings us to the Glidden arrow….

I grew up just a few miles from Bob Gliddens shop and know the Arrow/Colt platform well. His son Billy was a mechanical genius. A “theory” before engineering meant anything. I’m open for all ideas and setbacks.
I get 300 is an outer realm but damn I’ve seen good machine work and planning the whole combination beat the hell out of a bunch of bolt on go fast parts.

My old stock eliminator car would run low 11s with a cast iron intake and factory rockers. It’s all in the machine work to me.
 
All good. I know I’m a dumb arse for even going down this road! Why keep it simple? Make it as hard as it possibly can be so I feel like I did something. BUT my son wants a streetable car so I’m trying to find a way to do it. That 250 hp Camry is quicker than snot and weighs a thousand pounds more. Which brings us to the Glidden arrow….

I grew up just a few miles from Bob Gliddens shop and know the Arrow/Colt platform well. His son Billy was a mechanical genius. A “theory” before engineering meant anything. I’m open for all ideas and setbacks.
I get 300 is an outer realm but damn I’ve seen good machine work and planning the whole combination beat the hell out of a bunch of bolt on go fast parts.

My old stock eliminator car would run low 11s with a cast iron intake and factory rockers. It’s all in the machine work to me.
I'm right there with you. I got bit by the slant 6 bug back when I first met Bruce (RIP) on here years ago. I had always had big respect for them, but I really love um now. They're just different and that makes me smile.
 
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My 69 big block dart is a beast but it handles just as it should.
It’s like driving a front loaded grain wagon.

I’m intrigued by the slant 6 set up in a 2500lb car with upgraded suspension and brakes.
We will see where this ends up because I’m too deep in the car to stop now!
 
My 69 big block dart is a beast but it handles just as it should.
It’s like driving a front loaded grain wagon.

I’m intrigued by the slant 6 set up in a 2500lb car with upgraded suspension and brakes.
We will see where this ends up because I’m too deep in the car to stop now!
I absolutely love my 64. It just seems the perfect balance.
 
300hp seems to be the magic number everyone wants to hit naturally aspirated. A lot think they have, but in reality it's pretty tough. Not impossible, but damned tough.

I have my "next motor" on the stand. 198 long rods, 2.2 4cyl pistons, factory closed chamber prototype head with 318 valves. Block has been decked to .010" in the hole, so there'll be plenty of quench. I'm not trying to hit a certain number, I'm just building a solid, strong slant 6.

However, if I were trying to hit the number, I think I would back up and use a cast crank engine. Much lighter rotating mass. Cast cranks will stand 500hp, so plenty of room there. Probably not happen now, as I'm too far into this one, but that's what I'd do if I was looking for numbers. Which I'm not. I'm lookin for fun.

Still, I would love to see what that engine makes. Sounds like a great /6.
 
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