New roller cam...

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With my slant 6 I used Lucas Hot Rod and Classic 10w/30. It has 2400PPM zddp already in it. I also used zddp paste on the cam and lifters. Only tips other than that are make SURE the lifters spin. That's the most important thing. I also rip it up on break in. I vary between 2500 and 4500 for about 15-20 minutes. Splash lube is what you want and it won't happen at idle to 1500. The last guy who asked my recommendation for cam break in procedure went home an hour later and cranked it up and let it idle for 20 minutes. Some people you just cannot get through to. But the lifters spinning is the most important thing.
alright yeah that was similar to what i did. when i look at the failure i see that them not spinning was the cause of failure but when my dad was looking at the pushrods he said that they were all spinning but some were spinning very slow. was that a red flag or what needed to be done there?
 
alright yeah that was similar to what i did. when i look at the failure i see that them not spinning was the cause of failure but when my dad was looking at the pushrods he said that they were all spinning but some were spinning very slow. was that a red flag or what needed to be done there?
On anything I build, I always run a brake cylinder hone through the lifter bores. This makes sure to remove any burs, rust or any roughness. It's worked well for me for forty plus years.
 
I’m not full of money . Thats why I opted to go roller from now on . The cost of 2+ cams failing on a rebuild is more than the cost of a mid level roller set up .
I opted to build a 5.9 after several cam failures . shoulda done it from the getgo ! Would have saved me an easy $1000 . I used the stock lifters and got an Oregon Cams reg for around $200 . Put over 15,000 miles on that car in 1.5 years .

wow not so good. what did the rest of your engine look like?
Wasn't mine. I've used MP hyd cams for over 30 years. Maybe the last one 12 years ago was left over from the good ones! Lol. NO China Metal in our Cars Darn it! Someone posted some low lift solids that look sick on here! Maybe RustyRatRod did? I dunno. I've got a Old 528 solid racer brown I may run (one day)
 
Lol.. I know that . But I do believe hyd flat cams and lifters are not what they used to be. Or maybe it’s just the agressive lobes and higher spring pressures.
I don't disagree. That's why I never use any "new" hydraulic lifters. On this Chevy 350 I helped my friend with recently, I LUCKED SLAM OUT and found a set of the old Isky anti pump up lifters of all places....Summit! IT was the only set they had and when they got here the box was so old it had yellowed and was starting to separate. They went on top of his used cam and broke in really nice. I replaced his old ones because it had sat up so long they were all stuck. He's still driving it all over. We got luck on that deal.
 
I am so sick of wearing out my typing finger on this site & others.....

IF YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR FLAT TAPPET CAM AND LIFTERS TO FAIL, FIND SOME 25+ YEAR OLD LIFTERS AND HAVE THEM RE-FACED.
And no, it is not the oil.....or the lube that comes with the cam. It is soft lifter metal....
 
I don't disagree. That's why I never use any "new" hydraulic lifters. On this Chevy 350 I helped my friend with recently, I LUCKED SLAM OUT and found a set of the old Isky anti pump up lifters of all places....Summit! IT was the only set they had and when they got here the box was so old it had yellowed and was starting to separate. They went on top of his used cam and broke in really nice. I replaced his old ones because it had sat up so long they were all stuck. He's still driving it all over. We got luck on that deal.
Luck? Shoot Man, that's a Blessing! Say, since we're talkin' lifters, are the Rhodes any good ?
 
I am so sick of wearing out my typing finger on this site & others.....

IF YOU DO NOT WANT YOUR FLAT TAPPET CAM AND LIFTERS TO FAIL, FIND SOME 25+ YEAR OLD LIFTERS AND HAVE THEM RE-FACED.
And no, it is not the oil.....or the lube that comes with the cam. It is soft lifter metal....
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Spend the money and get Isky or Racer Brown Cam and lifters. There are other good guys, I just don't know them. Johnson lifters are made in the USA. Search eBay? How much money do you save when engine parts fail? I run solid cams, never a problem, but I get everything close and rev it to at least 2,500 to 3,000 rpm to break in the cam and engine. I run 20w-50 Valvoline Racing or VR1 with a good filter. I have street cars, I don't have to have the most aggressive lobes that take spring pressures over 300# open. It all adds up, do some more research.
 
any tips? other than priming the engine using the break in lube, instant start with 2k-3k for 20min and zddp?
After taking the cam out of the box, lean with mineral spirts, I like a moly lube that stays on the lobes, insert cam and cleaned with mineral spirts lifters/tappets, rotate cam by hand and watch for each lifter to spin in there bores.

If a lifter doesn’t spin, it’s a problem of a badly machined cam lobe OR a badly machined lifter OR the bore rod the lifter is out of round.

The rest of what you wrote is all I ever followed. Break in oil, a pint of high zinc additive if needed, prime the oil system. (Did you rotate the engine while priming rod is spinning?)

I just had my first cam/lifter failure ever earlier this year with a Summit cam. I used a cam I had intended for another engine as it’s replacement. A Comp thumper, the little one.
Zero issues.

IMO, finding 30 year old lifters is a crazy hunt to go on.
On the flip side, purchasing a roller cam suitable for your build may be hard to find one that suites the build. Even more so when it’s a solid roller cam. A Hyd roller cam can probably be found since they can be found small in size, comparatively speaking.
 
Well … a slant might have #150 lbs of spring pressure so it’s not really stressing the lobes . But the more aggressive cams that most guys are running today will require stouter springs.
.....and a stock slant has under 100# spring pressure. lol My unicorn head, on the other hand does not. I set it up with the Comp 911 springs. Big block Chrysler springs. I'd have to go back and look at the assembled height, but it's somewhere around 140 on the seat if I remember right.
 
alright yeah that was similar to what i did. when i look at the failure i see that them not spinning was the cause of failure but when my dad was looking at the pushrods he said that they were all spinning but some were spinning very slow. was that a red flag or what needed to be done there?
I'm not sure what happened in your case was operator error. It doesn't sound like it. I agree with all the points the others made regarding rollers being cheaper in the long run, because of the decreased chance for wiped lobes or hurt lifters. I say decreased, because the possibility is still there. But with your comments regarding money, that's why I advised against it. You're talking about an easy 1K on top quality camshaft and lifters. Then, you have custom pushrods, valve springs, retainers, valve keepers and "whatever" you're going to do about rocker arms. THEN are you going to hang STRONG roller cam springs on STOCK crappy valves? You see where I'm going here? It's a domino effect. You're fixing to drop probably 2K on a complete roller valve train. Then comes making sure all the valve train angles are correct, so as not to burn up any of your high dollar roller valve train. That means contacting Mike at B3 Racing engines and getting the rocker shaft relocated to the right position, because there's a 90% chance that it's not. So that's "mo money". But it's your money and hell, if you got it, go for it. But there's NO WAY in the WORLD that after spending all that money on parts, that I would half *** it trying to cut corners putting it together without everything being dead right. That's just askin for trouble.
 
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Luck? Shoot Man, that's a Blessing! Say, since we're talkin' lifters, are the Rhodes any good ?
Yes. They are about the best on the market. If you don't want the bleed down feature, get the VMax lifters. You can adjust that feature out of those. But for quality, they are very good.
 
After taking the cam out of the box, lean with mineral spirts, I like a moly lube that stays on the lobes, insert cam and cleaned with mineral spirts lifters/tappets, rotate cam by hand and watch for each lifter to spin in there bores.

If a lifter doesn’t spin, it’s a problem of a badly machined cam lobe OR a badly machined lifter OR the bore rod the lifter is out of round.

The rest of what you wrote is all I ever followed. Break in oil, a pint of high zinc additive if needed, prime the oil system. (Did you rotate the engine while priming rod is spinning?)

I just had my first cam/lifter failure ever earlier this year with a Summit cam. I used a cam I had intended for another engine as it’s replacement. A Comp thumper, the little one.
Zero issues.

IMO, finding 30 year old lifters is a crazy hunt to go on.
On the flip side, purchasing a roller cam suitable for your build may be hard to find one that suites the build. Even more so when it’s a solid roller cam. A Hyd roller cam can probably be found since they can be found small in size, comparatively speaking.
Do you remember the opening of the movie Christine? When they start the car on a black screen? They start it, it idles for maybe a second and then it gets revved to what sounds like about 5k. That's how they "broke them in" back then. That and the drive out the back door to the lot where they sat before getting shipped. Don't think for one second the factory spent 20 minutes PER CAR breaking in the cam and engines. Never happened. Of course, things were different back then, too, like oil high in ZDDP content and actual GOOD QUALITY parts! lol
 
might take a couple paychecks but it'll be worth it to feel the difference from my beat 318 in my dart. soon. but maybe not so soon because the cold weather is coming LOL
Have you priced a solid (or hydraulic) roller cam, lifters, pushrods, springs, retainers, locks, and likely rocker arms etc. etc. etc.? You won’t be able to use your existing valve springs so that means new springs and likely the retainers to fit them. And can you set up the valve springs yourself, measure for correct pushrod length, Etc. etc.? Have the tools to do so? It’s more money and work than you think
 
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I'm not sure what happened in your case was operator error. It doesn't sound like it. I agree with all the points the others made regarding rollers being cheaper in the long run, because of the decreased chance for wiped lobes or hurt lifters. I say decreased, because the possibility is still there. But with your comments regarding money, that's why I advised against it. You're talking about an easy 1K on top quality camshaft and lifters. Then, you have custom pushrods, valve springs, retainers, valve keepers and "whatever" you're going to do about rocker arms. THEN are you going to hang STRONG roller cam springs on STOCK crappy valves? You see where I'm going here? It's a domino effect. You're fixing to drop probably 2K on a complete roller valve train. Then comes making sure all the valve train angles are correct, so as not to burn up any of your high dollar roller valve train. That means contacting Mike at B3 Racing engines and getting the rocker shaft relocated to the right position, because there's a 90% chance that it's not. So that's "mo money". But it's your money and hell, if you got it, go for it. But there's NO WAY in the WORLD that after spending all that money on parts, that I would half *** it trying to cut corners putting it together without everything being dead right. That's just askin for trouble.
Yeah ive done a lot of reading now and i realize a roller setup has a lot more to it than just some lifters and a cam. But if i were to take and buy the same cam and lifters IF EVERYTHING ELSE LOOKS GOOD and i went to go break it in, what do i do differently to ensure it doesn't have the same fate? I also realized that although my cam kit came with single springs with dampers i should NOT have used them as they were too high of spring pressure. Im not sure what lbs they are but what spring would you recommend for cam break in with stock style heads?
 
Yeah ive done a lot of reading now and i realize a roller setup has a lot more to it than just some lifters and a cam. But if i were to take and buy the same cam and lifters IF EVERYTHING ELSE LOOKS GOOD and i went to go break it in, what do i do differently to ensure it doesn't have the same fate? I also realized that although my cam kit came with single springs with dampers i should NOT have used them as they were too high of spring pressure. Im not sure what lbs they are but what spring would you recommend for cam break in with stock style heads?

The number 1 killer of these cams is not having your **** together on the first fire up.

You can’t sit there on the key cranking it over. It should hit and run like it’s been running for thousands of miles.

The hard/soft lifter idea is bullshit. I’ve never seen a single bit of evidence for that. No one has posted a Rockwell test on the lifters. And for that matter, cast iron cam cores are made of low grade cast iron. There‘s nothing trick about the lifters or the cam.

Get your **** together. Make sure the lifters aren’t tight or prostitute loose in the bores. Make sure you have a known carb and known ignition that are verified before you even attempt to start the engine.

Fill the fuel bowls with fuel BEFORE you start the engine. Every carb ever has at least one vent to atmosphere. Use a small bottle and fill the bowls up before you hit the key.

You should NEVER start an engine EVER with less than 40 degrees of timing on it. EVER. Retarded timing makes heat. Heat kills ****. Killed **** is bad. If you are not sure how to set the timing for initial start up then get someone to help you.

If you think you can do it, this is how it’s done.

You need a damper that is degreed or you need a timing tape. You can make a mark on the damper by doing the math. That is: Diameter*Pi/360 and then calculate what 40 degrees is. Roughly 40 degrees is 2.5307 BTDC mark on the damper.

Once you know where 40 degrees is, rotate the engine until you are at 40 degrees BTDC. Put the distributor in and line the rotor up with number 1 on the cap (or housing) and make damn sure you turn all the advance in to it. With all the advance in, the rotor should point exactly at number 1 on the cap.

Bolt the distributor down and then if everything else is good, start the engine. Get the RPM up to 2500 and vary engine speed on a fairly regular basis. You want the lifters to rotate and get plenty of lube. That lube comes off the connecting rods. Run at least 20 minutes like that.

Other things to do is take the inner spring out if you have one. It’s the same procedure except that once you’ve run the engine for 20 minutes without the inner springs, install the inners and run it another 20 minutes using the same procedure above.

There is no reason to be afraid of flat tappet cams with the exception of hydraulic lifters. I do not use hydraulic lifters in anything. They are notoriously unreliable and most are just as noisy as solid lifters anyone. My exception to that is for guys who aren’t competent to lash valves. There are guys that don’t know how and guys that can never learn it.

Other than that, everything gets solid lifters.
 
Yeah ive done a lot of reading now and i realize a roller setup has a lot more to it than just some lifters and a cam. But if i were to take and buy the same cam and lifters IF EVERYTHING ELSE LOOKS GOOD and i went to go break it in, what do i do differently to ensure it doesn't have the same fate? I also realized that although my cam kit came with single springs with dampers i should NOT have used them as they were too high of spring pressure. Im not sure what lbs they are but what spring would you recommend for cam break in with stock style heads?
I have not had a problem breaking in cams with a 340 type single spring with a dampener. It would have to be a pretty stiff spring to cause and issue. The dampner itself doesn't add anything to the seat pressure.

If I were in your shoes, I would tear down your engine clean everything and put it back together with new bearings if needed. I would then get another hydraulic flat tappet cam (not comp), and find a set of NOS or NORS 30 or 40 year old made in USA flat tappet lifters to use. There are usually some listed on ebay. IIRC there is also a guy on forbbodiesonly selling a big block set now.

You are looking at $1500 bucks at least to convert to a roller cam set up. Not budget friendly to say the least.
 
Yeah ive done a lot of reading now and i realize a roller setup has a lot more to it than just some lifters and a cam. But if i were to take and buy the same cam and lifters IF EVERYTHING ELSE LOOKS GOOD and i went to go break it in, what do i do differently to ensure it doesn't have the same fate? I also realized that although my cam kit came with single springs with dampers i should NOT have used them as they were too high of spring pressure. Im not sure what lbs they are but what spring would you recommend for cam break in with stock style heads?
Find a set of old factory Mopar lifters have them recrowned clean and inspect thoroughly and install them on a new cam. And yes of course rotate the engine by hand and make sure the lifters rotate in the bores.
Cut open your oil filter and inspect for metal before you proceed.
 
I have not had a problem breaking in cams with a 340 type single spring with a dampener. It would have to be a pretty stiff spring to cause and issue. The dampner itself doesn't add anything to the seat pressure.

If I were in your shoes, I would tear down your engine clean everything and put it back together with new bearings if needed. I would then get another hydraulic flat tappet cam (not comp), and find a set of NOS or NORS 30 or 40 year old made in USA flat tappet lifters to use. There are usually some listed on ebay. IIRC there is also a guy on forbbodiesonly selling a big block set now.

You are looking at $1500 bucks at least to convert to a roller cam set up. Not budget friendly to say the least.
well im running this cam Big Mutha' Thumpr 243/257 Hydraulic Flat Cam for Chrysler 383-440
and i know there's not a lot of good things said about it but i already bought it before i read any bad reviews on it. but my point is my car is already dialed for this cam with a 2600 stall converter and my guides are cut for the lift of that cam .507int. so with that said im kinda stuck looking for a cam with a low lift aggressive cam. do you have any opinions on other cams that would be good for my setup?
 
well im running this cam Big Mutha' Thumpr 243/257 Hydraulic Flat Cam for Chrysler 383-440
and i know there's not a lot of good things said about it but i already bought it before i read any bad reviews on it. but my point is my car is already dialed for this cam with a 2600 stall converter and my guides are cut for the lift of that cam .507int. so with that said im kinda stuck looking for a cam with a low lift aggressive cam. do you have any opinions on other cams that would be good for my setup?

Check with Hughes engines about one of their whiplash cams I guess if you want something similar.

If you are taking the engine back apart then having the guides cut for clearance wont be that big of a deal to get done. Lots of small cam choices will work with the 2600 stall and what you have now though.
 
Thinking twice about a roller?
I don’t blame you.

My Hyd flat tappet went south. It started right up! No issues other than something went south. A few asked what was bad. I don’t know how to say it was 100% this or that. All I can say is the lifter did spin in the bore. Was the tappet bad? IDK
Was the cam bad? IDK
All I know is it went south, the replacement cam and lifters went in, I checked the tappets for there ability to spin in the bore again and that was fine. Break in went fine.
And it was a Comp Cam. The little thumper.

Honestly, I say try again and just check that the lifter spins in there bores.
 
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