New to site, new to Mopar overheating issues

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. D's Nuts and Bolts

    D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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    Thank you, it runs at pretty good to find a place to pull over. When I was driving it home, which was about a 2 .5 hour drive, I texted the guy I bought it from and he said it always ran at the keep an eye on it mark for him (in the month he owned it).
    Like I said, I think the issue was never corrected, so they slapped an electric fan on and that kept it in a ok range.
    With all of the help I'll get this issue fixed, then probably address the power steering, ugh. She defiantly needed some TLC and someone who respects cars to own her.
     
  2. moparmat2000

    moparmat2000 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    When you shoot the radiator with your temp gun. Hit it all over but especially at the bottom once its warmed up, rust deposits will settle there where the water flow is slower and so the bottom will be cooler if its plugging up.
     
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    • Mattax

      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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      I'll say it once again.
      Check the radiator cap.
      The fact its climbing while driving is a big clue.
      Check the thermostat is opening.

      I wouldn't remove the pump as the first step.
      I would remove the electric fan immediately. It's not helping and not good for the electrical system.
      If they screwed up the terminals (connectors), fix them right. You may need a Packard 58 or Chrysler style female terminal.and appropriate crimpers.
       
    • Mattax

      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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      I'll say it once again.
      Check the radiator cap.
      The fact its climbing while driving is a big clue.
      Check the thermostat is opening.

      I wouldn't remove the pump as the first step.
      I would remove the electric fan immediately. It's not helping and not good for the electrical system.
      If they screwed up the terminals (connectors), fix them right. You may need a Packard 58 or Chrysler style female terminal.and appropriate crimpers.
       
    • D's Nuts and Bolts

      D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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      Ok I'm going to grab a cap this evening. What I'm concerned about is I had power at the alternator regulator F side when the key was on and now I don't. This is how the fan was wired, it had a fused power wire that hooked into the F side. Fan stopped running and no power at that terminal.
       
    • Mattax

      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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      IIRC, try to get a cap for radiator without overflow tank. It may be that the caps for overflow tank can be used on the earlier system but I can't recall and too tired to think it through at the moment.
      My guess is the regulator was damaged. Whether its a points regulator or an electronic regulator doesn't matter in this respect. There's only so much current that can flow through them without damaging the internals. The points type is pretty straight forward - There's fusible links inside. Too much current and the link with blow.
       
    • Nat

      Nat Well-Known Member

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      sounds like dr Frankenstien put that cooling system together . good luck you'll have a great street cruiser once this is fixed
       
    • Mattax

      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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      F is for Field. Field is shorthand for Electromagnetic Field.
      When current flows through the wire windings of the rotor, an electromagnetic field is created.

      These voltage regulators control the current flowing into the rotor.
      Here's an animated gif illustrating the flow. (hit reload to start it again)

      basic-charge-circuit-charging-animated-gif.gif
       
    • Mattax

      Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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      Stant Vintage catalog lists the following for Darts of these years
      273 1966, 10299 13 psi
      273 1967-68, 10231 16 psi
      318 1968, 10231 16 psi
       
    • 512Stroker

      512Stroker We are all here because we are not all there.

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      I have been do this road too many times.
      If it is gett'n hot going down the highway(alot of air) your radiator lacks the thermal loading capacity to shed the BTU's in heat created by the engine.
      In other words the radiator and/or water pump are not doing they job.
      Rad may be plugged or under sized
      Water pump impeller damaged or spinning on the shaft
      Lower radiator hose may be collapsing at rpm
      T stat is junk blocking flow
       
    • D's Nuts and Bolts

      D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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      Thank you for the advice. So here's how my evening went, the alt voltage regulator must be fried because the battery didn't charge so I had to jump the car to get it back in the garage. Well another issue the previous owner didn't share was the broken hood hinge, car fired up, hood slammed onto the jumper cables and started cooking the hood. So it looks like a new paint job to the hood is now on the list. As far as the regulator, I think I'm going to go ahead and switch over to electronic. It already has the alt. for the switch.

      IMG_6368.JPG
       
    • 512Stroker

      512Stroker We are all here because we are not all there.

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      Dam the luck!
       
    • 65 Cuda 340

      65 Cuda 340 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      OK, if I had just bought a car that had an overheating issue, w/o knowing when that became an issue or anything about the car's history, first thing I'd do is pull the radiator and have it flow checked, and boiled or rodded out if necessary, and if it was bad enough to need more, then a new core or a new radiator. Once you know the radiator is good, you can go from there.

      By the way, I have found out that if you remove a radiator and set it aside for a few months without first rinsing it out with fresh water, the damn thing will clog up just sitting there and cause overheating when you put it back in. Happened to me twice. The problem wouldn't show up until I'd been driving for an hour or so. In the first case (slant six), I had the original two row core replaced with a three row and that solved the problem. In the second case (big block that already had a three row core), the radiator was pretty new and had been working fine until I removed it. Having it boiled out solved the problem.

      Knock on wood, I suppose, but I've never had a cooling problem that was caused by the fan I was using, or a too-small water pump, or the wrong size pulley or the lack of a shroud. It's always been the radiator - either clogged or just too small for the motor.
       
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      • D's Nuts and Bolts

        D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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        Hmm, you could be onto something. I wonder if the car sat for an extended period and developed what you are referring to. Both times the overheat happened was after i had been driving for 45 min+. I was going to flush it, but I wonder if I should get it flushed or just get a new one.
         
      • D's Nuts and Bolts

        D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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        Ok which one of these would be the best option to just go back stock for now. Eventually, I want to convert to electronic since the alt is already in place and it seems like a conversion a lot make.

        https://www.autozone.com/batteries-...r/duralast-voltage-regulator-vr706/129965_0_0

        https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/p/bwd-voltage-regulator-r280p/5430453-P?searchTerm=regulator
         
      • Mattax

        Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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        There's a guy with a '69 with a thread going currently so I hope I don't mix the two situations up.
        Fried. Well probably, but might as well cherck before throwing parts at it.
        A couple easy checks
        1. Key off and then in Run. Measure voltage at the regulator's input. A probe can usually be slipped in the back of the connector. The next closest location is the ballast resistor. Voltage at either of these should be the same as at the battery positive. Measure at the battery with the key still in run. Then turn key off.
        If not showing full battery voltage at the regulator with key in run, then there is a connection problem before the regulator.
        upload_2020-7-25_11-51-29.png

        2. Bypass the regulator. Because this regulator both measures the voltage to ground, and controls the flow from the positive, if its stuck open for any reason a temporary bypass will allow current to flow to the rotor.
        upload_2020-7-25_12-0-18.png

        If you can, before doing the bypass test, put the battery on a slow charge. 2 amps if it has a choice of scales. While the alternator can recharge the battery, there's no real control on the current. So when a battery is deeply discharged, it will draw a lot of current even at 13.5 to 13.8 volts. Even more if the voltage is higher. With the bypass test, there will be no voltage regulation! Voltage will go up with rpm. Keep the rpms down. Watch the ammeter. Try to keep it under 20 amps. If looking at a voltmeter, try to keep the system voltage under 15 V. High currents are hard on all the components (alternator, wires, connectors and battery) and more so when things are oxidized or dirty.

        After starting, the rotor should get power just like if the regulator was letting maximum current through.
        basic-charge-circuit-charging-animated-gif-gif.gif

        The one on the car now may have solid state internals. The big advantage is less electrical noise, which is pretty much irrelevant when there's practically no electronics on the car. :)

        The one on the bottom looks more original.
        Whether one is more durable or holds a closer set point than the other, I don't know.
        A lot of new stuff is pretty bad either in design or manufacturing quality or both. :(

        With a electromagnetic points regulator, remove the lid. If there is a problem its usually obvious.
         
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        • D's Nuts and Bolts

          D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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          Ok so I tested the regulator and it reads close to 12 at the battery and the IGN side with the key on. The FLD does register. The car is dead now and won't start, I'll get it on the charger. I'm thinking it has to be the regulator that's causing it not to charge right? Here's pics of the regulator and how it's wired. Man what a can of worms! Thank you for all of the help!

          IMG_6390.JPG
           
        • D's Nuts and Bolts

          D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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          I can't get the image of the diagram to load, basically the only additional thing wired in now is the carb choke on the IGN side. The fan was wired into the FLD side.
           
        • toolmanmike

          toolmanmike Moderator Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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          Never saw a Mopar regulator like that.
           
        • Mattax

          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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          Did you mark it up in something like MS paint?

          Oh wait. I think I know what happened. When editing a post to add images we have to click the button on the bottm that says something like Full Editor.

          Sounds like an aftermarket carb (electric choke). I guess for now piggy back to take power from the 16 ga run wire, rather than off the 18 ga wire to the regulator. Long term maybe add a fuse or maybe we can come up with something better.
           
        • Mattax

          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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          Think I have somewhere. Definately has solid state guts.
          Does?
          How much ?
          With Voltage at the other end around 12 or less, should see the same on the field. I'd be inclined to replace it at this point and wouldn't hurt to have a spare.
          You can do the bypass test when the battery is charged up.
          I bought a spare from FBO via ebay. It cost more but I really don't know its any better than the two you linked to.
           
        • Mattax

          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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          On the back of the alternator there should be one brush in an insulated holder. Green field wire attaches to the terminal on it.
          If there is a second insulated brush with a terminal on it, that needs to be connected to ground.
          On pre-1970 alternators, that second brush is in a non insulated holder and attached to the alternator casing. Those are don't require a grounding wire since the esecond brush is grounded to the case.

          upload_2020-7-25_15-58-41.png

          hargrave-justin-post-restoration-alt-29-68-005-jpg.jpg
          picture from here
           
        • D's Nuts and Bolts

          D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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          Sorry it doesn't register.
           
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          • Mattax

            Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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            okey dokey. Yep. Probably a bad regulator.
             
          • D's Nuts and Bolts

            D's Nuts and Bolts Active Member

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            This is what's on it now, it looks like the first of the pictures you sent. The green wire that's clipped looks to be clipped on the other end too up by the firewall.

            IMG_6395.JPG
             
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