Newbie (sort of) needs some ideas...

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moper

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Hi guys, I know a lot about how engines work but have little to no experience with the slants other than removing them. However, I have this '65 Barracuda I've gotten attached to with an anemic 170 (not original... had a 225 from what I understand) and a bad rocker (has a fun sowing machine tick...lol) I have all the parts to swap a V8. but I'm thinking being the lazy type, sticking a warmed up 225 in it might be fun and easier. So, what I need ideas on is years of shortblocks, years/castings for head possibilities, etc. I would keep the '65 only 904 so I'd prefer to start with a '65 or earlier shortblock with the small crank hub. So lets discuss... Final package will have a small 4bbl, with mildly ported head and headers, some sort of cam..lol. So toss out ideas and please tell me WHY certain parts are better or worse...
 
Hollar at Charrlie S. He RACES 170s. I sell speed parts but am on the road til next week. Ill let others tell you what works. Then come to me and save 20-40%.
Thanks,
Frank
 
If you use a pre '68 crank,you can keep the small pilot. All 225 are the same from 60-75,with the exception of the change in pilot bushing size. So you can mix and match blocks/cranks/heads. The 5 freeze plug BH block is the strongest(I think they made them 1969+)but for what you want,you can run any block. All slants pre 76 are forged crank motors. You will want a head with the revised combustion chambers,which is 68+ (but some 67's had it,my old 67 Dart GT did)search slantsix.org for the casting number for this head.If you want a nice driver with a mild cam and small 4 bbl go with the offy intake. If you want to run a big cam/carb,port the head and run high comp. run the clifford.
 
So I guess I'd call a '68 the best choice for a running base engine then? I thought the small hubs went away earlier in '66.
 
For V8's yes. For the slant 68 was the changeover year.If I were you I would just take what I could find for the best price. You really wont need anything special for what you want to do.
 
If you got the parts already for it, I say go to a 273 or a 318 they can pretty peppy, but thats just my 2 cents
 
I think all of us slant six guys should start posting in the BB and SB section. "well you can make more power with a BB/SB,but why dont you yank it out and put a slant in there" how would everyone like that? If you dont know **** about slants,stay out of this section.:thebirdm:
 
Moper:
For what you want to do, any slant six engine will work just fine. If you use a 68 or newer engine/crank, all you need is an inexpensive adapter bushing to go in the end of the crank and the 68 or newer flexplate. Just find a rebuildable 225 engine, increase the compression ratio to about 9.0 to 9.5 to one. which can be done by milling the head, while the valve job (bigger valves and hardened exhaust seats) is being done. Cam needs to be selected depending on whether you will change the converter stall speed, and balanced with the compression ratio. Bigger cam will require more CR, then a smaller cam. Up grade to electronic ign, using a chrysler electronic distributor, and a GM HEI module with either a HEI or Ford "E" coil. You will want to recurve the distributor, after you get the engine running and see what it wants. My 66 Valiant with a stock shortblock 225 (with cam), and just a milled head and good valve job (stock size valves), turns the 1/4 mile in 14.8's sec, on motor only, no power adder. No machine shop work on the engine except the head. Here is a link to the build.
http://www.slantsix.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11218&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Grinder, lets not start a pissing match, please. Moose was actually making a valid suggestion. If course I wouldn't do that. I removed a 360 from my Barracuda, and installed a 170.
 
So there's an adaptor, eh? I really like the cable shift, so I want to keep the trans..lol. As far as V8s... I've considered everything from RB to LA. I have the '65 only V8 trans, complete 273 core for tin, more than a couple small blocks, factory 273-4bbl manifolding, centerlink, gas pedal, kickdown, etc. So it's not a question of getting anything in terms of V8s. But for ease of install, and perhaps a turbo down the road, the 225 seems like a couple hours of install and I'm driving again. I have a habit with my own stuff for never getting it done, and I really don't want to take this one apart unless it can be running later the same day...lol. The 170 in it already is recurved, the carb modified, and I've driven it daily for a month or so when my Neon died suddenly even in temps as low as 20°. As I said, it's kind of won me over. So I guess I'll find any 225 and go from there. My problem is it runs decent, but not fantastic, and even on my dirt driveway, it can barely turn one 3" wide tire. So I'm hopeful toget something that with the "tweaking" I can do and a couple bolt ones I can get 1hp/inch. I'd bet that's more than twice what it has now...lol.
 
moper said:
So there's an adaptor, eh? I really like the cable shift, so I want to keep the trans..lol. .
Click to expand...
The adapter is really just a "ring" that goes in the end of the late crank. Price is about $20 something dollars, but can be made by anyone with access to a lathe.
If you like the cable trans, really have some fun, and do what I did. Get a Push button shifter from a 64 "A" body, and mount it in a console on the floor. The only change required to the trans is to change the "Manual" valve in the valve body, and the "rooster comb", to the 64 pieces. Or you can just install a 64 valve body. I have my setup in a 66 Cuda, with a 170.
 
Nah, I like the little floor shifter this car has. I had planned to use a floor shift and console from a late 70s Magnum and run a later trans but the more I drive it, the more I like "simple". $20 and shipping is worth me not having to have a friend do it for me...lol.
 
Interesting thread, good info.

Your car sounds fun, moper, good luck and lookin forward to more posts about it.
 
Charrlie_S said:
Grinder, lets not start a pissing match, please. Moose was actually making a valid suggestion. If course I wouldn't do that. I removed a 360 from my Barracuda, and installed a 170.
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Not trying to start a pissing match. Just getting sick and tired of the V8 guys comming in the SLANT SIX forum and saying that crap! It would be a valid suggestion if moper asked: "should I go slant or v8?" but he didnt ask that. He was asking for suggestions on building a slant. Most of these guys only go BB/SB cause its what everyone else does,and they dont know how to think out of the box.Or they have never built a slant,and dont know better.
 
did you read the HP figures on that Mopar Muscle article I posted? I know it was an expensive build, but dammit man.
 
StrokerScamp said:
did you read the HP figures on that Mopar Muscle article I posted? I know it was an expensive build, but dammit man.
Click to expand...

Ya with 13-1 comp! That is a cool article,im friends with Romeo,the guy who built it. A member on slantsix.org is running the manifold/fuel injection from that set up. You can make close to that power with less exotic parts for sure. If you really want to go nuts look into the long rod 225.
 
You'll hear the name "Clifford" come up, but be very careful before you decide to spend any money with Clifford. They have a long and ugly reputation for being a bunch of clowns; see for example here, here, here, here, and here. Much of what they sell is inaccurately described, and a lot of it is not even slightly cost-effective. The good news is that you don't need to go to Clifford to get hot rod parts for slant-6s; there are lots of other, better options. See for example Dutra Duals and header options discussed in this thread and this one, Erson custom cams, HEI ignition upgrade, Mike Jeffreys windage trays, Hurricane intakes, other exotic intakes. Hi-perf engine buildup here, high-perf parts and build info here.
 
And now, for something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT....


Since he already is seriously considering a 225 engine, why not do a real mild supercharge or turbocharge on it, Say, limited to about 8 pounds of boost...

A used Vortech V-1, S-trim blower, or a small turbo could be obtained for very little money (say, $200.00 or less off ebay.)
http://tinyurl.com/3a6tvam


A 2bbl intake manifold could be gotten from a junkyard, along with a Holley 2bbl carb. The stock exhaust manifold could be modified with a turbo flange at the bottom, to mount the turbo, or just run a cheap set of headers if a centrifugal blower was chosen.

Somehow, he'd need a blow-thru modification on the carb. There are guys on FABO that can do that, reasonably.

Simply boost-referencing the stock fuel pump should be all the fuel system mods that would be needed, with this small amount of boost, I'd think.

The stock pistons, crank and rods would work fine, along with the stock distributor (with the initial timing dialed back) and the stock radiator and water pump should cool this, nicely.

The original, stock cam would be an excellent choice, using mechanical or hydraulic lifters.

OEM drivetrain parts would probably work ok, but a 7.25" rear would probably need replacing, pretty soon, with something stronger, like an 8-1/4".... they're cheap!

Limiting the boost to 8 pounds would make an intercooler completely unnecessary.

A water/ alcohol injector would guarantee that detonation would not be a problem with 93 octane, if the timing were set appropriately (probably 18 degrees, total advance.)

This setup should make about 50-percent more horsepower than the stock engine, with unchanged driveability and gas mileage. Plus a rear axle ratio in the high 2's would work great. I'm told that the really fast turbo /6s LIKE ratios below 3:1... Ryan's 10-decond Valiant runs one in the high 2.s.... so hi-way cruising would be optimal with the stock ratio.. Not so with a normally-aspirated build, where something like a 4.10-ratio would be needed for best performance.

And, it would probably last forever.... on pump gas, yet.

Just think what you'd have to do (and spend) to get a normally-aspirated 225 to exhibit a 50-percent increase in power... This might be cheaper...

Charlie S., I think this thing might run mid-14s-15-flat in a 3,100 pound car. What do you think???


IT could WORK.... :)
 
Well, my buddy got himself a Gremlin for Christmas with a straight 6. So now he's behind me not doing the V8 swap...lol. I think I'm looking to get something I can do in steps. The eventual "perfect situation" might be a single turbo. I cannot see the logic of building for a supercharger that robs so much power when it's only a little further to go turbo. I know V8 guys have used Ford's EFI to run mopar V8s.. I wonder how hard it would be to get the 300/6 EFI to work on a mildly boosted slant. I could prob get a whole truck for $200 for that.
 
moper said:
Well, my buddy got himself a Gremlin for Christmas with a straight 6. So now he's behind me not doing the V8 swap...lol. I think I'm looking to get something I can do in steps. The eventual "perfect situation" might be a single turbo. I cannot see the logic of building for a supercharger that robs so much power when it's only a little further to go turbo. I know V8 guys have used Ford's EFI to run mopar V8s.. I wonder how hard it would be to get the 300/6 EFI to work on a mildly boosted slant. I could prob get a whole truck for $200 for that.
Click to expand...

I think thats an awesome idea, I hope you show the build on here Ill pay close attention :read2: :toothy10:
 
moper said:
Well, my buddy got himself a Gremlin for Christmas with a straight 6. So now he's behind me not doing the V8 swap...lol. I think I'm looking to get something I can do in steps. The eventual "perfect situation" might be a single turbo. I cannot see the logic of building for a supercharger that robs so much power when it's only a little further to go turbo. I know V8 guys have used Ford's EFI to run mopar V8s.. I wonder how hard it would be to get the 300/6 EFI to work on a mildly boosted slant. I could prob get a whole truck for $200 for that.
Click to expand...


I think you might run into some really difficult-to-deal-with problems by using a normally-aspirated fuel injection system on a turbocharged engine, but that's just my opinion.

The trend seems to be to use a 4-bbl manifold with a blow-through modified Holley carb on top, because there are lots of people doing the blow-through mods and the Holleys are available in a variety of sizes that fit lots of different sized engines.

There are a couple of things that nobody's pointed out about a /6 that has been turbocharged relative to street driveability:

1.Turbocharged slant 6's seem to like a cam with minimal duration and overlap. This means that although you may have a 10-second car, the idle will be smooth because of the overlap situation.

2.The really fast turbocharged /6s seem to perform better with rear axle ratios UNDER 3:1... that would be around 2.91:1, or even 2.76:1. That would mean you not only a smooth idle, but great highway gears instead of a 10-second, 340-powered car's raggedy idle at 1,200 rpm, and 4.86:1 rear end gearing,

Couple those two items with the fact that turbo cars are QUIET, and in order to keep them efficient, ten-second 340s are LOUD, so, if you want a sleeoer, or just a nice, quiet F-A-S-T daily driver, a turbo /6 is really worthy of consideration!!!

Oh yeah; a turbo /6 is about a hundred pounds lighter than a "built" 340...
 
Bill, I'm thinking more for the wiring, sensors, and "chip burning" ability of the Ford system then running the factory brain with it. The code is the same regardless of the engine and the ability to simply burn a new chip is a great thing if you are going in steps... IE starting with N/A, then adding a turbo, then adding an intercooler. I know of guys who run the GM tuned port stuff too (although for this it would have to be the v6 family of EFI). Just trying to think out of the box... I'd have to look into it more. First things first. Still need a 225...
 
moper said:
Bill, I'm thinking more for the wiring, sensors, and "chip burning" ability of the Ford system then running the factory brain with it. The code is the same regardless of the engine and the ability to simply burn a new chip is a great thing if you are going in steps... IE starting with N/A, then adding a turbo, then adding an intercooler. I know of guys who run the GM tuned port stuff too (although for this it would have to be the v6 family of EFI). Just trying to think out of the box... I'd have to look into it more. First things first. Still need a 225...
Click to expand...



Well, I am really nobody to try to give anyone advice on this because I don't know enough about it...

Shoulda kept my cyber-mouth shut! I have no experience with EFI, so I am really unaware of what can work and what can't....

Keep us posted on your project; maybe there's some EFI in the future of our project!

Thanks for your comments!!!
 
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