No, PST doesn't always resolve problems satisfactorily

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Dusterdenovo

Contentedly Old School
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I am prompted to post this email chain I had with PST after another "PST Concerns" thread was abruptly closed by a moderator. I had purchased their Greasable Pivot Shafts and when I received them they simply didn't fit into either of the 2 K-Frames I have. Period.

This problem was also mentioned not too long ago in another thread:
Ok, LCA came off with pry bar and shaft was still in LCA. Put a pipe wrench on it and took some effort to get it turning where i could eventually tap the pipe wrench and get it out. My old pilot shaft went in by hand no resistance and you can move it laterally in other words its not snug in the bushing. I noticed the taper was longer on the PST shaft and a little larger. Ill be removing the other side also.
View attachment 1715170361 View attachment 1715170362 View attachment 1715170363 View attachment 1715170364

As per the following email chain with James, I brought the problem to PST's attention, shipped the shafts back and asked for my money back. After 8 months of getting the "Customer Service Rope-a-dope" from PST ("Didn't Dan contact you?","Never got your email", "Don't see the problem" etc), I just got fed up and suggested he send me a couple of their (shitty) fender covers for my Hundred bucks, as my request for a refund was simply ignored.

Since then, I have purchased their 1.03 Bars and Adjustable strut rods, which arrived and went in just fine so this isn't a general condemnation of PST. HOWEVER, I can attest to the fact that when folks have problems with PST products, their response can be pretty damn far from "Let's give him a refund and figure out what's wrong", "Customer is always right", or even "Let's make it right to encourage future business" etc. More like "Ignore/deny it until it goes away"


-----Original Message-----

From: jfrom@p-s-t.com [mailto:jfrom@p-s-t.com]

Sent: March-06-15 6:22 AM

To: “Dusterdenovo”

Subject: Re: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hello Larry,


I will shipping the fender covers out shortly.


Thanks

James


-----Original Message-----

From: “Dusterdenovo”

Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 4:29pm

To: jfrom@p-s-t.com,

Subject: Re: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


No offense taken. Just offering what I think would be a mutually agreeable resolution.


Thanks, Larry

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry


-----Original Message-----

From: jfrom@p-s-t.com

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 15:59:35

To: “Dusterdenovo”

Subject: Re: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hi Larry,


My intentions was not to offend you. I was just letting you know what I found. I am working with management on where we are going to go from here. I will get back to you as soon as possible.


Thanks

James


-----Original Message-----

From: “Dusterdenovo”

Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 2015 3:35pm

To: jfrom@p-s-t.com,

Subject: Re: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hi James:


All I can tell you is that I have 2 K frames that the shafts did not fit properly in to. If they worked, they would already be in my car.


Why don't you just send me a couple of fender covers to replace them and we call it a day then?



Thanks, Larry

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry


-----Original Message-----

From: jfrom@p-s-t.com

Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2015 13:18:57

To: “Dusterdenovo”

Subject: Re: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts



Hi Larry,


Sorry that it has taken so long to get back to you about the pivot shaft. It has been so terribly cold here and finding the time on the weekend to put them in my Duster has been tough. I can't seem to see the issue that you are having. I did not install them in the arm, but I did install them in the k-frame ( V-8 K frame) with no issue. I then pulled from our stock a set of the OE style non greasable pivot shafts to compare them side by side and take measurements. They match identically to the oe stlye. The only difference is the over all length as the greasable is longer and the portion that goes into the bushing is different as the greasable is to be used less the inner shell.


Thanks

James

-----Original Message-----

From: “Dusterdenovo”

Sent: Tuesday, February 3, 2015 1:50pm

To: jfrom@p-s-t.com,

Subject: Re: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


OK, thanks James.


I'll wait to hear back from you.


Cheers, Larry

Sent on the TELUS Mobility network with BlackBerry


-----Original Message-----

From: jfrom@p-s-t.com

Date: Tue, 3 Feb 2015 13:13:53

To: “Dusterdenovo”

Subject: RE: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hello Larry,


I got the pivot shafts today. Thank you for sending them to me. I plan to take them to my personal shop this weekend to fit them to my car (72 Duster) to see if I can see where the issue is.


Thanks

James


-----Original Message-----

From: “Dusterdenovo”

Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2015 8:58pm

To: jfrom@p-s-t.com

Subject: RE: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hi James:


I got a UPS shipping label, if that's what you mean.


The box will be dropped off at a UPS station in Washington this weekend.


Thanks, Larry


-----Original Message-----

From: jfrom@p-s-t.com [mailto:jfrom@p-s-t.com]

Sent: January-22-15 12:48 PM

To: “Dusterdenovo”

Subject: RE: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Larry,


Did you get the call tag?


Thanks

James


-----Original Message-----

From: “Dusterdenovo”

Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 1:02am

To: jfrom@p-s-t.com

Subject: FW: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hello James:


I sent this message to you last Friday (January 9)-not sure why you didn't receive it, but here it is again.


If you review the below thread from last summer, I explained my problem with the Pivot shafts that they don't fit into the K-Frame. I wasn't talking about the end that fits into the PG bushing, I was talking about the threaded end.


I never ever did hear from "Dan", as I explained in my last reply. You guys just let this die. I paid $100 for shafts that don't work, the point of bringing this to your attention was that I wanted my money back because they don't fit. I just picked up another K-Frame, and they don't fit that one either. The shafts are wrong.


Please contact me back about my refund. Happy to explain to you anything you need clarified, supply pictures whatever.



Thanks, Larry


-----Original Message-----

From: “Dusterdenovo”

Sent: June-18-14 10:28 PM

To: jfrom@p-s-t.com

Subject: RE: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hi James:


Congratulations on the new arrival. Life is over as you know it!


I used my original shells (discussed below), just pushed the bushings in by hand, then pressed the shafts into the bushings. Everything looked just the same as your picture. I'm not sure, but the shafts may possibly have been binding on the front smaller hole of the K frame, but not sure. They just (both sides) stopped about 1/8" back from where they needed to be.


Then the control arms just slipped off of the bushings (shafts and bushings stayed together pretty snugly) as I was trying to tighten up the fwd strut bushings. They were that slippery. Decided not to proceed as I seemed to be playing an all around bad hand.


No, I never heard from the other chap.


Thanks, Larry


-----Original Message-----

From: jfrom@p-s-t.com [mailto:jfrom@p-s-t.com]

Sent: June-18-14 5:48 AM

To: “Dusterdenovo”

Subject: RE: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hello Larry,


I am doing a follow up to your email. Did Dan from our customer service get in contact with you ? Normally this is something that I would handle but I have been out of the office this past week as my wife had our first child. The greasable shafts are designed to be exactly the same in fit and form as the originals except for the portion that is installed into the lower control arm bushing. That portion is larger in diameter than stock because they are used with our polygraphite bushing with less the inner bushing sleeve. Fitting into the k member should have not been an issue. As for the issue of the bushing and the shell. Did you press the shell in first and then the bushing, then the shaft? I just did one recently here and had no issue with install. Attached is a photo. Was your seated like this one prior to installation into the K member ?



Thanks

James


-----Original Message-----

From: “Dusterdenovo”

Sent: Monday, June 9, 2014 1:54am

To: jfrom@p-s-t.com

Subject: RE: Greasable Pivot Shafts


Hi James:


So I want to run this by you: today I installed my assembled Left side lower control arm with the greasable pivot shaft. The new shaft is bigger dia. than the original such that it won't seat all the way forward in the K member. I reefed the hell out of the nut and it's still about 1/8" back of where it needs to be. Also, while I was doing this, the LCA (outer shell) slid back off the bushing/shaft about 1/4" so there isn't much friction there keeping things together. I haven't put the torsion bar in yet, which I understand from previous email that it should help hold everything together.


Is this common? Any thoughts or ideas about the shaft fitting into the (original 6 banger) K Member?


Thanks in advance,


Larry
 
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Wow. That speaks volumes. What business has an employee fit a potentially defective part on that employees personal car at the employees personal shop, but only on the weekend? And what bullshit excuses/reasons...it was cold, can't find time to put them in my Duster. Wow.
 
Left pin.
Looks like the LCA bushing inner shell is still on the pin.
Needs cut off.

image.jpeg
 
The problem / defect I am referring to is the size of the section of the shaft that goes into the K Frame. Nothing to do with the LCA bushing.
 
ok so , I'm by no means taking sides here , I don't have a dog in this fight .... but , wouldn't there be an issue with every one of these that has been bought and/or not installed?
 
Thats certainly a valid point, but I have no idea of PST's quality control, whether they source multiple vendors for these parts or what so I can't give you a good answer on that.

What I do know is that the ones they took my money for didn't seat properly in my /6 K frame or the V8 K that's in the car now. The original shafts fit great in both K's, the PST ones didn't.

I posted this thread so that if anybody else has in fact had this same problem, they might come forward and then shed some light on the question you posed. I already referenced 1 recent thread that indicates the same problem, so there are at least 2 instances out there. So far.

Perhaps more people would have responded to the recently locked thread if it hadn't been locked so quickly. (Sponsor Vendor censorship??)

I'm not too concerned as this was a few years ago and my car works just fine with the original shafts and stock bushings, but I thought I would offer up my experience to challenge the myth that "contacting PST and talking it all out" was some kind of universal solution.
 
Yikes, PST’s response to your problem leaves a lot to be desired. PST should take them back with out the fuss. To put in perspective, here’s a story that shows the other end of the spectrum and it’s a home improvement store (major North American outfit) that doesn’t sell car parts. At a location here in the Lower Mainland, a senior citizen went to their Returns counter and wanted to return the snow tires/rims she insisted she bought from that store. She had no receipt. The returns clerk called over the senior clerk nearby and explained the challenge. The senior citizen was polite but firm about wanting to make a return. The store manager was soon paged and once he arrived, he determined the solution was to provide a refund, mutually agreed upon given there was no receipt and the tires were used, to the senior citizen. Crazy but it’s a true story!

From a customer perspective, I’m puzzled, if you got jerked around with them on their pivot shafts, why did you go back to the same well and buy more product from them? By going back to the same well, you’re accepting their service levels and are not too fussed with how they jerked you around on the pivot shafts.
 
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yes I agree that they should have replaced/refunded no questions asked. it's kind of lame that other thread got shut down , because even so , the guy had a valid complaint. hell , I've called summit and told them they sent me a jacked up torque thrust wheel , they shipped me a new one and a return postage for the old one the very next day. they didn't even ask me one question. outstanding customer service. that's why I keep buying from them.PST should have the identical practices.
 
From a customer perspective, I’m puzzled, if you got jerked around with them on their pivot shafts, why did you go back to the same well and buy more product from them? By going back to the same well, you’re accepting their service levels and are not too fussed with how they jerked you around on the pivot shafts.

Agreed. Other than the Pivot Shafts, their other products I have purchased are quite decent. Having said that, subsequent purchases I made from them (Torsion bars and adjustable Strut Rods - not offered by a lot of other vendors, especially the 1.03 TBars) were made on the basis that if anything was wrong with these products, I could probably just stick them in my ***. Yes, I accepted those terms and fortunately the pieces were fine. I don't forsee any future purchases.

Nowhere in this thread am I telling folks not to buy from PST. What I am saying is that when I hear a guy saying he got screwed by PST (even if the only post he ever made on FABO was to slag PST, supplied no pictures etc. etc.), I consider that to be somewhat plausible based on my own experience.

People reading this thread can draw their own conclusions and purchase accordingly. Caveat Emptor.
 
Kinda weird to me that he was going to try them on his own car... Totally not your issue. Refund, send a 2nd set (after verifying they are different from the set they're holding), or replace with like value merchandise. Pretty simple really.
 
The post from Dan K was taken down because he had signed up on all 4 forums and proceeded to spam each one with 4 threads( one in general, one is tech and so on) each with a copy and paste of the same message. All the admin did was remove the duplicates. The original was kept of the FEBO as his car was a Challenger. Here is the link if you would like to follow:

Problem with PST Suspension


Wow. That speaks volumes. What business has an employee fit a potentially defective part on that employees personal car at the employees personal shop, but only on the weekend? And what bullshit excuses/reasons...it was cold, can't find time to put them in my Duster. Wow.

This is not an uncommon practice by any small company. Many times even after a new product is done (engineer and test fitting) a company will install them on multiple vehicles prior to putting them up for sales. When we first designed our pivot shafts we worked with and engineering firm on the blue prints, testing and fitting which was years prior to this complaint and since that time sold numerous pairs with no issue. So when the customers complaint came in we called tagged (prepaid shipping label) the pivot shafts and bought them in house for evaluation. At that time I personally checked them against our blue prints and found them ito be correct. So at that point I took them home to fit them to my 72 Duster (which is at my shop with no heat at the time (winter) and it is 20 miles away from my house so with children that are toddlers can be difficult to get away) to see if we could replicate the customers issue which I was unable to do. They installed correctly and torqued down properly without and issue. The hard part here is we could not replicate the customers issue and with not being with him and experiencing his problem makes it difficult to resolve the issue.

Thanks
James From
 
So at that point I took them home to fit them to my 72 Duster (which is at my shop with no heat at the time (winter) and it is 20 miles away from my house so with children that are toddlers can be difficult to get away) to see if we could replicate the customers issue which I was unable to do.

Well, you aren't hiding the facts. However, I don''t believe the 8 month timeline and the above reply will enhance opinions of your customer service. Now I know why your products are only sold direct and not through a retailer like Jeg's or Summit. I have never had any one of these companies drag out a return or give excuses, factual as they may be, like yours.
 
Thanks for stepping fwd with this, an itchy trigger finger closed that thread IMO.
Thats certainly a valid point, but I have no idea of PST's quality control, whether they source multiple vendors for these parts or what so I can't give you a good answer on that.

What I do know is that the ones they took my money for didn't seat properly in my /6 K frame or the V8 K that's in the car now. The original shafts fit great in both K's, the PST ones didn't.

I posted this thread so that if anybody else has in fact had this same problem, they might come forward and then shed some light on the question you posed. I already referenced 1 recent thread that indicates the same problem, so there are at least 2 instances out there. So far.

Perhaps more people would have responded to the recently locked thread if it hadn't been locked so quickly. (Sponsor Vendor censorship??)

I'm not too concerned as this was a few years ago and my car works just fine with the original shafts and stock bushings, but I thought I would offer up my experience to challenge the myth that "contacting PST and talking it all out" was some kind of universal solution.
 
Well, you aren't hiding the facts. However, I don''t believe the 8 month timeline and the above reply will enhance opinions of your customer service. Now I know why your products are only sold direct and not through a retailer like Jeg's or Summit. I have never had any one of these companies drag out a return or give excuses, factual as they may be, like yours.

At this point I am doing this all off a memory without the customers info I can not pull up the customers account as of now with the limited info in this thread and I do not have his private message that he had sent saved any longer. As you can see there is a large gap between our conversation June 18th to January. That doesn't mean that nothing happen as he may have been working with our customer service. Again I would need to pull his account.

Just because our products are not sold in jegs or summit doesn't mean they aren't quality. Look at mancini racing, firm feel, rms, hdk and etc. These are all great companies that with top notch products and they do not sell within the pages of Jegs and Summit. So it is ridiculous to say one should only purchase through only two source as you are missing out on a lot of great companies. The OP of this thread even stated since his issue that we he has purchased from us and his happy with the quality as seen in post 9. Do I feel that the duration of this customers issue was long and I apologize for that but without pulling the customers file I can not draw a full conclusion based off my memory from 3 years ago.

I do my best in answering everyone's questions that come through here and expect the same from our customer service as well when a customer calls. We are all human and we make mistake and we try out best to resolve issues in as timely a manner. We have been in the business of supplying quality parts for all muscle cars for over 30 years and feel that alone says a lot about our company and its products.

Thanks
James From
PST
 
Thanks for stepping fwd with this, an itchy trigger finger closed that thread IMO.

The owner/admin "Joeychgo of the site made the decision to remove it not us as we do not have that right. The only things that I ask him to do was to combine that 4 threads on FABO into one so that I did not need to defend the actions of PST in 4 separate threads. In my email to him I explained that I am all about a customers having a voice and letting others know when they have a problem. But with any issue there is 2 sides to a story and I feel that we should not have to defend ourselves in 4 different threads.

The admin made the decision to remove it and only keep it on the FEBO site

Problem with PST Suspension

Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
 
just so i understand. this was a 3yr old problem, that i don't remember seeing anyone else have, that was brought up to provide proof that it is in fact possible to have a problem with PST and think they could have done a better job handling it................ 3 years ago

check
 
That doesn't mean that nothing happen as he may have been working with our customer service

Well, I can clear that up for you; **** all was happening, as I was only attempting to work with you as per the above email chain which I included verbatim.

The facts are the facts. Attempted damage control at this point only serves to dig this hole deeper.

I didnt start this thread to open up some kind of debate, I started it to bring some balance to a discussion and assist other FABO members to make more informed purchasing decisions.
 
So it is ridiculous to say one should only purchase through only two source as you are missing out on a lot of great companies.

I did not suggest or recommend that people only buy through Jeg's or Summit. I only used them as an example; Mancini is a retailer, great company. Take care.
 
We completely understand what you are pointing out and we are accepting responsibility for the delay in handling to the issue when it was being attended 3-4 years ago. I am only responding to the fact that we did not remove the posters thread of the previous thread that you mentioned in post number 1 ("I am prompted to post this email chain I had with PST after another "PST Concerns" thread was abruptly closed by a moderator."). Its just that it resides on the proper forum (FEBO) so the balance still remains but on the proper forum.

But than we felt the need to reply to the others that posted within this thread with their questions or comments

Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
 
Well, let me toss a log on this fire too.
First, I've been buying from PST with no issues for decades. But the last car i did, was my Dart several years ago. The tie rod sleeves sent with the kit were too long.
I sent an email, and I think i sent a pm through here. The results? Crickets. I didn't persue the issue. I sand blasted my old ones, and used them. Not as big an issue as others have said, but not good customer service. I have trouble accepting the term "small business " . They've been around 30 years.
 
I'm the only one that has used this login for the pass 7 years and personally answer all pm's. All are responded to in a timely manner and if there was an issue with an item. I would have handle it personally or directed you to our customer service to handle the exchange. If you have the product still please pm with your full name, address and zipcozip that we originally shipped the parts too and iwillI work with you. thanks

From a business stand point we are still considered a small business with less than 50 employees between sales, customer service, marketing and warehouse.

Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
 
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Since I don't need them anymore, I would like a refund. I will dig them out of my shed this weekend. I will pm you my info.
 
Since I don't need them anymore, I would like a refund. I will dig them out of my shed this weekend. I will pm you my info.

Send me your info now so I can pull your info internally. Once you find the parts. Please relay to the part numbers on the bags.

Because of the age we can not offer a refund if the parts were supplied correctly we can only provide store credit. So the part numbers will be need on the parts supplied.

Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
 
Very funny. This is why I didn't bother. They are no longer in a bag, again it was several years ago. They were powder coated on the assumption they were correct. Don't worry about it.
 
You are more than welcome to provide me with your info, picture and lengths and I will try to identify them. But I can only work within in the parameters of our warranty. The parts themselves should have casting numbers themselves.

Shipping & Returns

Thanks
James From
PST Marketing
 
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