Nose job

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Shorty Thompson

Shorty Thompson

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I dunno if this is the place to ask for help , but here it is . I'm getting ready to strip down my Demon for a racing 1/8 mile . I wanna take out the front fender wells . I'm told that it will allow the front frames to wander at will . What do " you " do the stiffen the , or brace them so they don't ?
 
I would install "J" bars and a radiator cross bar at a minimum. Do a search using those terms and there should be plenty of pics and descriptions.
 
IS this for header clearance? or custom front frame rails and suspension, or weight savings?
Cutting out your inner fenders for weight savings would be beyond negated by the reinforcement you have to add back in, as well as the aerodynamic effects of air getting "trapped" under the car / in the engine bay opposed to flowing under the car. IMO of course..
 
There will be serious flex if you take them out and don't reinforce them frames
 
I hear ya and am listening intensely . I am looking for any suggestions out there to still remove them for engine access . I will be doing frontal nose bars , or whatever they're called . I also thought of running a tube in front of the crank pulleys as a stiffener . I will be putting a Alston chassis as apart of the build , because I want to use Ma's front suspension . Thoughts ?
 
an Alston chassis!? so, simply use the front longitudinals (the bars from the fire wall to the front frame) and don't sweat the inners - get 'em out!!
 
Shorty Thompson said:
I hear ya and am listening intensely . I am looking for any suggestions out there to still remove them for engine access . I will be doing frontal nose bars , or whatever they're called . I also thought of running a tube in front of the crank pulleys as a stiffener . I will be putting a Alston chassis as apart of the build , because I want to use Ma's front suspension . Thoughts ?
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This is a very open ended question/discussion the way its being presented. Your overall build and goals/intent would greatly add to the discussion.
If you're going as far as to remove the inner fenders, and tie the front end into the chassis, with a cage...you'd be nuts to INTENTIONALLY keep torsion bars
IMO.

As i'm guessing this won't be a complete tube chassis pro mod with a tilt front end....i'm thinking a HDK or Alter K, would easily help get the space you need opposed to chopping up the unibody. I'm guessing you mean an Alson cage...nota complete rolling chassis? correct? the "keeping Ma's suspension" doesn't tie into either of these rationales...So some clarification would help
 
Johnny Pace said:
This is a very open ended question/discussion the way its being presented. Your overall build and goals/intent would greatly add to the discussion.
If you're going as far as to remove the inner fenders, and tie the front end into the chassis, with a cage...you'd be nuts to INTENTIONALLY keep torsion bars
IMO.

As i'm guessing this won't be a complete tube chassis pro mod with a tilt front end....i'm thinking a HDK or Alter K, would easily help get the space you need opposed to chopping up the unibody. I'm guessing you mean an Alson cage...nota complete rolling chassis? correct? the "keeping Ma's suspension" doesn't tie into either of these rationales...So some clarification would help
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in general I agree with this - but my car has no inner fender wells and the 12pt roll cage is tied to the front rails AND I am still running the original K-frame with all the associated MaMopar pieces, including the torsion bars. The previous owner was running the car in the 1/8th, with NOS in under 7 sec... some launches were wheels UP - all good.
 
ScampMike said:
in general I agree with this - but my car has no inner fender wells and the 12pt roll cage is tied to the front rails AND I am still running the original K-frame with all the associated MaMopar pieces, including the torsion bars. The previous owner was running the car in the 1/8th, with NOS in under 7 sec... some launches were wheels UP - all good.
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Yeah i'm not knocking a setup like that, Just certainly an opportunity to explore other options. Especially if going as far as incorporating a tube chassis, but i assume he just means a cage. For me personally I wouldn't go that far w/o going to coil overs, but nothing wrong with the mopar faithful keeping factory suspension or steering i suppose if everything is in working order. In my experience by the time the car makes the transition to chassis upgrades here and there...the 40 year old bars,A-arms, and steering has its slop and shakes that also needs tending to. From someone that runs low 10's in a leaf spring dart, with a caged and tied car...My torsion bars and stock suspension couldn't get replaced fast enough. Now had i rebuilt the entire front end, and replaced the steering box, etc... i'm sure i could have at least got it to handle as good as any worn out chevy" lol...so the quote goes :)
 
Johnny Pace said:
This is a very open ended question/discussion the way its being presented. Your overall build and goals/intent would greatly add to the discussion.
If you're going as far as to remove the inner fenders, and tie the front end into the chassis, with a cage...you'd be nuts to INTENTIONALLY keep torsion bars
IMO.

As i'm guessing this won't be a complete tube chassis pro mod with a tilt front end....i'm thinking a HDK or Alter K, would easily help get the space you need opposed to chopping up the unibody. I'm guessing you mean an Alson cage...nota complete rolling chassis? correct? the "keeping Ma's suspension" doesn't tie into either of these rationales...So some clarification would help
Click to expand...


This is what I'm going to be using inside the Demon ;
Pro-street chassis.jpg

I'm going to be using the back half
 
famous bob said:
I believe no inner fenders will let air and heat out better than having them in too.
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Quite the opposite in fact. Instead of air traveling under the car, it hits the firewall, and gets trapped in various low pressure zones under the hood, causing turbulence, and drag. Many, Many Racers will tell you that they lost a few MPH, and a little ET after removing inner fenders.

Unless this is a fiberglass body shell, with extreme aero /ground effects...it would be fairly pointless to remove the inner fenders.
header clearance would be about the only reason i could cite.
I'm lost in the combination of retaining stock suspension/steering with a back half, and 12 point cage, but to each their own.
 
You can't choose your face, but you can always pick your nose.... :p
 
Johnny Pace said:
Quite the opposite in fact. Instead of air traveling under the car, it hits the firewall, and gets trapped in various low pressure zones under the hood, causing turbulence, and drag. Many, Many Racers will tell you that they lost a few MPH, and a little ET after removing inner fenders.

Unless this is a fiberglass body shell, with extreme aero /ground effects...it would be fairly pointless to remove the inner fenders.
header clearance would be about the only reason i could cite.
I'm lost in the combination of retaining stock suspension/steering with a back half, and 12 point cage, but to each their own.
Click to expand...


Now that makes sense . No fiberglass , for now , no header clearance , Just wanted to achieve easier access to the motor . So ! With that being said , as soon as I can get you folks a peek at what I got & have to repair . I think you'll better understand me wanting to remover the inner fender wells
 
Shorty Thompson said:
Now that makes sense . No fiberglass , for now , no header clearance , Just wanted to achieve easier access to the motor . So ! With that being said , as soon as I can get you folks a peek at what I got & have to repair . I think you'll better understand me wanting to remover the inner fender wells
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not sure I agree w/ removing them slowing u down, the air would literally boil out of the wheel wells. at any rate I`ve never removed them my self, but would make the car way easier to work on for sure.
 
The previous owner of mine took out the inner fenderwells when it was still a project. I had fenderwell headers so never even gave it a thought to put them back in. If it would help et and mph I may be inclined to put them back in. Kim
 
famous bob said:
not sure I agree w/ removing them slowing u down, the air would literally boil out of the wheel wells. at any rate I`ve never removed them my self, but would make the car way easier to work on for sure.
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download.jpg
 
famous bob said:
more area to let air out of the engine compartment, it will come out the wheel wells and down under the car as before . why do really fast cars almost never have them????????????
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Because they are aerodynamic fiberglass bodies with aero splitters 1/4 inch off the ground, and their carb scoops are sealed to the carbs. Ever notice a pro-mod body doesn't even have a radiator opening?
I'm not starting an argument at all, just having some fun. I have a bachelors in Aeronautics, and I have been racing everything from Super-pro Rails, to 9 second street cars since i was 16... Im pretty confident that hacking the inner fenders out of a 12.90 car...will do absolutely nothing but make your plugs easier to change, and turn it into a 13.00 car. I could go into a long explanation of how low pressure zones and aerodynamics actually effect this, but again i'm not trying to be all high and mighty. It's just a scientific fact that cutting out the inner fenders WILL slow the car down in this instance. Marginally? Yes. But some, none the less.
 
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Johnny Pace said:
Because they are aerodynamic fiberglass bodies with aero splitters 1/4 inch off the ground, and their carb scoops are sealed to the carbs. Ever notice a pro-mod body doesn't even have a radiator opening?
I'm not starting an argument at all, just having some fun. I have a bachelors in Aeronautics, and I have been racing everything from Super-pro Rails, to 9 second street cars since i was 16... Im pretty confident that hacking the inner fenders out of a 12.90 car...will do absolutely nothing but make your plugs easier to change, and turn it into a 13.00 car. I could go into a long explanation of how low pressure zones and aerodynamics actually effect this, but again i'm not trying to be all high and mighty. It's just a scientific fact that cutting out the inner fenders WILL slow the car down in this instance. Marginally? Yes. But some, none the less.
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Loved the explanation on your views and opinion , seriously . What I'm looking to aside from easier access to the engine bay would also be a totally removable front end . That being said , even though it may slow me down . What would you do to stop the front frame rails from swaying to & from ?
 
Shorty Thompson said:
Loved the explanation on your views and opinion , seriously . What I'm looking to aside from easier access to the engine bay would also be a totally removable front end . That being said , even though it may slow me down . What would you do to stop the front frame rails from swaying to & from ?
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The aforementioned j bars and cross bars would be needed. Depends what all you want to keep in front of the firewall. We are walking an odd line at this point, of a tube chassis door car..... with oem suspension?. A Motor plate and trans plate would help rigidity.
 
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