Now I have seen everything!!!!!!

clementine

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They are doing a hard sell on solar panels in my area. Basically its sold as instead of paying the electric bill you pay.......an electric bill. Except after the panel is paid off you will get a credit as that power will be going back into the grid. Now the "loan" for the panel is for, lets say, 15 yrs......but the warranty only is for 10. So you say the panel will last for 25 but you aren't really sure as it starts to fail you will only stand behind your product for less time than it will take me to pay it off? Might be off on the pitch, but I think I have the general scheme portrayed correctly.
 

pomonamissel

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well isn't that always the way we do things , we designed and build gas power vehicles before there where good roads to travel on . and now ev's and total e powered trains when we can't keep from having brown n black outs of power now . ev's are a great idea but these not enough power to go around now . solar feeds don't work at night or with over cast skies days . so how and who flips the bill . oh ya gas taxes helped keep the highways n roads repaired , hows that work with ev's ?
 

dusterbing the peace

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They are saying they still produce on the over cast days? but they say a lot of things. Im still looking into it. panels....not EV
One thing to keep in mind is the service and maintenance of them. Many of my neighbors complain about months of impaired or no service and if you’re not producing you’re not realizing a return. Hail storms (maybe you’re lucky to not get them in your area) can take out a panel or two pretty easy and you’re left waiting on a replacement. If you’re too far from original install date they may say those panels are out of date/no longer being produced and that the newer panels are incompatible, so you need to upgrade the whole system. Just observations from around here, other markets or providers might do a better job. Some of the neighbors are doing just fine too of course. I’m too skeptical/pessimistic/untrusting still.

Side note, I would hot rod the **** out of one of those 9 second Teslas if I could afford it…no loss due to the altitude up here:steering:
 

pomonamissel

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a buddy of mine designs solar systems , there just not good on overcast skies , at least the ones we could afford . NASA has some great solar panels that they have designed . but their out of this world , lol .
 

92b

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They are doing a hard sell on solar panels in my area. Basically its sold as instead of paying the electric bill you pay.......an electric bill. Except after the panel is paid off you will get a credit as that power will be going back into the grid. Now the "loan" for the panel is for, lets say, 15 yrs......but the warranty only is for 10. So you say the panel will last for 25 but you aren't really sure as it starts to fail you will only stand behind your product for less time than it will take me to pay it off? Might be off on the pitch, but I think I have the general scheme portrayed correctly.
Sounds a lot like a car loan. Warranty is up before the car is paid for. Not an uncommon practice.
 

jos51700

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Sounds a lot like a car loan. Warranty is up before the car is paid for. Not an uncommon practice.

My brother fell for that ****.
Got panels so he wouldn't have an electric bill, then financed it for 20 years so his financing is as much as his electric bills were, and when they're paid off, they're wore out.

And you don't get off-grid power unless you buy the batteries. You're just helping the electric utility supply someone else and you have to pay a fee for that.

I told him that $25,000 divided over his $120 electric bill every month meant that he'd not be ahead for something like 17 years, but he didn't listen. And that doesn't even include interest.
 

Steve welder

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My brother fell for that ****.
Got panels so he wouldn't have an electric bill, then financed it for 20 years so his financing is as much as his electric bills were, and when they're paid off, they're wore out.

And you don't get off-grid power unless you buy the batteries. You're just helping the electric utility supply someone else and you have to pay a fee for that.

I told him that $25,000 divided over his $120 electric bill every month meant that he'd not be ahead for something like 17 years, but he didn't listen. And that doesn't even include interest.
And dont forget when you need a new roof the cost of removing them and reinstallation.
Thanks but I'll pass
 

92b

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My brother fell for that ****.
Got panels so he wouldn't have an electric bill, then financed it for 20 years so his financing is as much as his electric bills were, and when they're paid off, they're wore out.

And you don't get off-grid power unless you buy the batteries. You're just helping the electric utility supply someone else and you have to pay a fee for that.

I told him that $25,000 divided over his $120 electric bill every month meant that he'd not be ahead for something like 17 years, but he didn't listen. And that doesn't even include interest.
In your calculation are you making the assumption that his electric rate will not increase over the next 17 years?
 

jos51700

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In your calculation are you making the assumption that his electric rate will not increase over the next 17 years?
His rate increased 5% in the last decade (Very rural). Even if it went up 10% from now for the duration, it only makes the payoff two years sooner. That's also assuming 100% efficiency for the panels, with no decrease in output over that time, which I know will occur too.
 

Ironracer

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Should work well here in Australia if you could mount enough solar panels to the roof, some of our towns are over 700 miles apart how are we supposed to charge up an electric car when the closest town is nearly twice the available range away
They Don't Care. CAUSE YOU won't Be traveling!
 

KevinB

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I don't see how electric cars are going to work in this country. Not everyone can charge up at home, and will need to be able to charge up everywhere they go, as that battery degrades. That will be impractical and uneconomical for businesses to install.
Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't that what they said when the horseless carriage was invented?
 

Jim Lusk

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Just playing devil's advocate here, but isn't that what they said when the horseless carriage was invented?

Yes, some folks did make that argument, BUT current EV technology is far behind current ICE technology in terms of usefulness. At the time the "horseless" carriage came out it was about even and there was no chance of the horse technology improving. My 2020 Hyundai Elantra ECO is light years ahead of the 1977 Toyota my parents bought new in terms of comfort, fuel economy, performance. Basically everything about the 2020 is better even though the two cars fit into the same segment of the market. I don't believe batteries will ever be the solution. They are too heavy and take too long to charge safely. EVs may take over the market some day, but electricity storage will be different than it is today.
 

Steve welder

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Ten years from now the EV battery technology now used will be obsolete. Battery technology will be leaps and bounds better, longer milage between charges and generally more efficient and economical
You only need to look at how battery powered tools have evolved over the last 25 years to understand that battery EV technology will not stand still and will improve
 

KevinB

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Ten years from now the EV battery technology now used will be obsolete. Battery technology will be leaps and bounds better, longer milage between charges and generally more efficient and economical
You only need to look at how battery powered tools have evolved over the last 25 years to understand that battery EV technology will not stand still and will improve

yes much like automotive technology improving rapidly at the turn of the century, only much faster
 

Dan the man

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I don't see how electric cars are going to work in this country. Not everyone can charge up at home, and will need to be able to charge up everywhere they go, as that battery degrades. That will be impractical and uneconomical for businesses to install.
If you have a 110 outlet in your garage then you can charge your car, at least that's what people are saying
 

Yunick13

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Not everyone has a garage, or an outside outlet. Stretching a 100 ft chord outside isn't practical or safe either.
 

toolmanmike

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If you have a 110 outlet in your garage then you can charge your car, at least that's what people are saying


"How long does it take to charge a Tesla with a 120 volt outlet?

20-40 hours

Here's a breakdown of the charging methods and approximately how long each take to fully charge a Tesla from a low battery: Level 1 AC (120V outlet at home): 20-40 hours. AC Level 2 (Third party chargers/Tesla chargers/Tesla home charger): 8-12 hours. Level 3 DCFC (Tesla Supercharger): 15-25 minutes.Nov 3, 2021
 
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