oil pan - rear main - rope seal?

[Dana67Dart]

1 does oil pan removal upset the rope seal?

No.

2 can a rope seal be installed without separating transmission

Technically no, it is not intended to be put in like the rubber ones can be.
There is a procedure in the FSM and it shows using a special tool and the crank is out of the engine

3 i highly doubt a rubber seal can be installed without removing the transmission

Not the case. Once the rope seal is removed, a rubber one can be inserted and rotated inplace.

Can I ask why you are so dead set on installing a roap seal?


Getting on my soap box....

You are putting a ton of hours into a dead mule that has been beaten and put away wet, trying to get it to run like a newly rebuilt engine without rebuilding it.

Is there a good reason like sentimentality, just want to see if I can do it, or is it plain stubbornness- I will prevail!

Stepping down off my soap box...

 

[chorty55]

Can I ask why you are so dead set on installing a roap seal?

Didn't know there was a switch over.

Good to know I can avoid it.

There's no reason dead set on installing a rope seal if I'm asking questions about a rope seal.

Its not leaking. So I'm not busting that cap loose if I tear into the pan.


Biggest question now is if I can clear everything without lifting the engine.

I'm not familiar with Mopar innards under the block.
There's 3-4 inches from pan to differential housing. And I could make another 3 inches if I lift the engine, but thstll require welding up a hoist and a case of beer.

 

[chorty55]

Pan can drop might need to remove the steering cross bar and maybe raid the engine can inch or two.

Maybe not. The steering linkage runs from the front of machine to the steer axle along the frame.

 

[chorty55]

I think if I pull the harmonic balancer, slag some of those pump brackets a bit slimmer, and kill the $100 radiator hose I had to cut 7 inches out of, I think I might be able to slide that pan towards the front without lifting engine. But the pan is going to get more shallow as I slide it forward regarding the pickup tube.

If I lift the engine, its almost a promised theory. Just need to weld something for the ratchet binder to pull on something. Probably lift the engine with thegarbage Chinese carburetor I just ordered.

 

[chorty55]

And it looks like a nightmare to install bearings. Let alone a rear main. I'm leaving that rear cap. Nope. Nadda.

 

[chorty55]

It looks like I need to pull the accessory drive to separate it.

Not sure what all was done to make this 318 go against the drive housing. Clearly the torched 3/8" plate is custom.

There's the peep hole for the tc bolts.

 

[chorty55]

i'm not sure if this pan has the sump in the middle or front? and apparently the front is rare? I might still try and lift the engine and give me another 4-5 inches out at the block. I might need all the swear room as possible.

 

[nutz]

Just fill the pan up with STP and let it ride. It'll have oil pressure and probably stop the leak too. Win/win.

i have a couple of cans of stp ,price $1.35 on the can....vintage ...perfect in a 69 engine ,might be worn cam bearings

 

[chorty55]

Seems to me a 60 psi cold dropping to 5 psi hot idle is excessive.
Outside chance the pump relief is hanging. I had one hang on a 360. Oil pressure was good cold and dropped as the engine heated. When I broke the first pump bolt loose the valve popped back. That pump was replaced.

This has me thinking too. Cold thick oil will mask the relief being open and appear normal as temps increase, once good and hot, that's when the problem shows on the gauge?

this is the #1 reason i hate electric sending units and prefer mechanical gauges, glycerin filled ontop of that. It's so sensitive i can see the needle twitches when the spark plugs fire.

 

[4eighteener]

I think you are on the right track chorty.

 

[chorty55]

furthermore, hot or cold, i need to grind on it for easily 8-15 seconds before the gauge even begins to show pressure. Another sign of a stuck open relief? Oil drain back causing it to loose prime? Granted my oil filter delete and relocate mod has another 8 feet of hose, but still between the oil filter drain back valve and assuming nothing is stuck open in the pump, it shouldn't take THAT long to find oil from an overnight sit?

 

[LO23M8B]

Please forget the STP. In a crude up motor it will surely make it worst.

 

[chorty55]

Please forget the STP. In a crude up motor it will surely make it worst.

yeah i know.
i hope i can clear the pickup screen. This pan setup has the sump in the front, and the pan needs to drop and slide forward and up out in front of the crank snout. I'll try that before burning an overhead hoist together. I already welded steps to the sides and a small work table on the rear for all this work. What's another add-a-thought? If i need to i'll torch out that oil cooler pump and glue it back in there afterwards.

I need to check the pump and pickup screen, this is where the road dead ends. I'm baffled how i was making 60psi cold with 5w-20, and now i cant make 45psi cold with 15w-40....and both oils drop to near zero when hot.

i'm quite sure a gob of **** went somewhere it wasn't supposed to when i did the gear and chain, or it was just faith and some build up went somewhere anyways, and it was yesterday instead of tomorrow.

I'm annoyed because i was careful with rags and such to try and keep things out of the pan, even dousched it with a few gallons of diesel fuel when the front cover was off to flush anything down and out the drain hole in the oil pan.

Could be worse. Could of gone blind with no oil gauge like my old man has done for 40 years, and locked it up!

 

[nutz]

I had a strand of wire from a wire wheel seize a oil pump once .
All it takes i one little piece of something to stick your bypass valve or drain back valve

 

[chorty55]

Before I kill this oil pan, should I pump seafoam or some ATF through it @ 3k rpm? Anything to soften everything.

Then maybe one more time after a few days of sitting?

This 2nd oil change with 15 minutes on it looks like jet black paint. I thought the previous 10 year drain was ridiculous

 

[Dana67Dart]

I would pull the pan and see want your working with.

Or get an endoscope and look through the oil pan drain plug

 

[junkyardhero]

Before I kill this oil pan, should I pump seafoam or some ATF through it @ 3k rpm? Anything to soften everything.

Then maybe one more time after a few days of sitting?

This 2nd oil change with 15 minutes on it looks like jet black paint. I thought the previous 10 year drain was ridiculous

i knew a guy that would fill them with diesel and idle it hot for a minute then let it sit up, run it again up to temp and then let it sit up for a good bit and drain it.

you could probably achieve the same thing with a "modern" engine flush like wynns, seafoam or motul.

but chances are you've already done the damage and the screen is full of junk or some such nonsense.

 

[chorty55]

I found the scary spray wand today going through the shop trying to make buckets of iron for funding.

I'll l pull top covers as well to wash the top of heads and lower block webbing down with gasoline.

And take smoke-breaks upwind. Its sketchy to use. Maybe carb cleaner is a better choice? Brake cleaner? Acetone? All sound wild with 120psi.

 

[junkyardhero]

I found the scary spray wand today going through the shop trying to make buckets of iron for funding.

I'll l pull top covers as well to wash the top of heads and lower block webbing down with gasoline.

And take smoke-breaks upwind. Its sketchy to use. Maybe carb cleaner is a better choice? Brake cleaner? Acetone? All sound wild with 120psi.

lol, wut?

yeah, maybe don't do that.

 

[chorty55]

lol, wut?

yeah, maybe don't do that.

Oh man, it's awesome for washing down transmission cases. I'm sure engine blocks too. There's a little knob for the dip tube. When it's fully open it's on Oh-**** mode. easily vaporize a half gallon with seconds.

It's an outdoors thing for sure. i think i found it at harbor freight for $15? gas makes the little dip tube turn into brittle glass.

Maybe i didn't read all the fine print.

 

[chorty55]

Oh man, it's awesome for washing down transmission cases. I'm sure engine blocks too. There's a little knob for the dip tube. When it's fully open it's on Oh-**** mode. easily vaporize a half gallon with seconds.

It's an outdoors thing for sure. i think i found it at harbor freight for $15? gas makes the little dip tube turn into brittle glass.

Maybe i didn't read all the fine print.

Flammable solvents work the best, but not recommend indoors. Mine has a screen for using dirty bullshit. They thought of everything!

 

[Mike69cuda]

I changed my rear main seal in the car. It is actually pretty easy once you get the pan off. I pushed the old one out with a cut off toothbrush. The modern viton (I think) seals are in two pieces and require no trimming.

Getting the oil pan off and on is the hard part. Had to raise the engine and remove steering linkage.

 

[junkyardhero]

Oh man, it's awesome for washing down transmission cases. I'm sure engine blocks too. There's a little knob for the dip tube. When it's fully open it's on Oh-**** mode. easily vaporize a half gallon with seconds.

It's an outdoors thing for sure. i think i found it at harbor freight for $15? gas makes the little dip tube turn into brittle glass.

Maybe i didn't read all the fine print.

i know exactly what that apparatus is, in fact i own one.

flammable liquids with it? that's how you wind up on them internet videos; and i'm not talking about the you know what ones...

 

[chorty55]

i know exactly what that apparatus is, in fact i own one.

flammable liquids with it? that's how you wind up on them internet videos; and i'm not talking about the you know what ones...

oh i agree.

extension hoses are cheap. Except this 900 foot situation.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I think it's time to take a step back. Look at what you're trying to do. You're trying to get by with the absolute minimum labor required. Just stop. Just go ahead and DO the work required to do the job right. Not gonna worry about the rear main? And the rear seal? seriously? That means all the work you've done to this point is for nothing. How much of a pussy are you? Do you want the thing fixed or do you want to just band aid it the rest of its life. Fix the damn thing and fix it right and stop wasting our time and yours.