Oil Pump & Camshaft Gear Oiling Modification

Slant 6 Engines

  1. pishta

    pishta I know I'm right....

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    reading your Dutra oil mods article, it looks like my "drilled jet idea" wasn't exclusively mine after all..."One method is to simply drill a hole through the block’s main oil galley “pocket” and press in a small roll pin or tube with a .030 hole to direct a stream of oil directly onto the gears..." Why is the 6 bolt HV oil pump the only candidate: "...You will need a “6 hole” oil pump if you plan to do this modification and it takes some extra work but this ensures that lots of oil is placed on those gears, right where it is needed...."Does it only have the necessary pressure area to drive this?
    oiler-far-sm.jpg

    So that whole article leaned toward too soft a gear and they said they hardened some but they didn't tell us if they worked. C'mon man!
     
  2. vitamindart

    vitamindart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I would be curious how well this worked. Does it solve the problem? HV pump gear will live like that? kind of curious how many HV pumps were installed without issues as well. cant see them continuing to sell if they all fail.
     
  3. pishta

    pishta I know I'm right....

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    ...Why is the 6 bolt HV oil pump the only candidate".."Does it only have the necessary pressure area to drive this?
    View attachment 1715768518
    Ah, I see the pressure galley going through that '6 bolt only' cavity now....j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶d̶r̶i̶l̶l̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶m̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶p̶o̶r̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶p̶r̶e̶s̶s̶u̶r̶i̶z̶e̶ ̶t̶h̶a̶t̶ ̶a̶r̶e̶a̶ and that will direct the oil into your bolt squirter...the latter pump bodies dont have this cavity. 6bolt.png Untitled.png
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
  4. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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    I am tending to agree. I'm not sure they made one....I've not seen one as of yet. Thanks for looking, Charlie!
     
  5. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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    No, you don't have to drill the pump. You drill the block. You need that cavity on the pump to keep the block from leaking after you drill it to pressurize the cavity.
     
  6. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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    If you read the Dutra article, the only failures he talks about are those who used 50 weight racing oil and some who ran high RPM with the HV pump. So, I'm betting as long as you run 10w30 like you're supposed to, you may not have an issue. I'm all about doing different stuff, so I wanted to try it. It sure won't hurt anything. I've got plenty of time to keep looking for a 6 bolt HV pump, or proof they never made one. I'm beginning to think the latter. And that's cool. If that's the case, I'll run the pump I have.
     
  7. pishta

    pishta I know I'm right....

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    Doh, I was visualizing that bass ackwards...Thank you, Drive through..
     
  8. volaredon

    volaredon Well-Known Member

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    I had a 79 D100 years ago, with a slant in it. I took off from home one day, got to the end of the block, made left turn, and BANG! Big backfire.
    Coasted into a farm field entrance. I could see my backyard from where the truck came to a stop. I walked home, got another car, so I could carry some tools.
    Upon checking it out, something led me to pull the distributor. (its been a long time ago, don't remember all details of the roadside troubleshooting I did.... )
    But I discovered that the dist gear was stripped. I went to parts store, bought a gear, swapped them out, put dist back in, it fired 2 or 3 times, (never started) and then nothing. crank crank crank, no fire.
    I pulled the dist (again) and the new gear was also shredded. This time when I pulled the distributor, the cam was in such a spot in rotation where I saw the issue... 2 or 3 sheared teeth on the cam gear. I have never seen that before, or since.
    so I chain towed the truck home, found another /6, and swapped engines. I should have fixed the original. The replacement engine was a horrible oil burner. and worse on power, than the original ever was. To my knowledge, that original engine had never been torn into. It ran really good right up til it didn't.

    After the bum /6 oil burner, that truck got 318'd. I never did pull that original /6 apart to see what else was damaged within, just scrapped it.
    Im sure the oil pump gear was shot, as well. It had to be. I dunno "chicken or egg" progression of what went 1st, which then caused the carnage. It's been 30+ years ago.
     
  9. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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    If you look at the picture where I'm holding the drill bit in the hole I drilled, you'll see how that cavity is pressurized.
     
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    • RustyRatRod

      RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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      Now that's interesting! Thanks!
       
    • Phreakish

      Phreakish Well-Known Member

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      Black oxide coated hardware is often made from high strength alloy steel which has been hardened some. Not whore's heart hard, but harder than typical butter soft screws.
      The black ox is used as a coating because it is low heat and doesn't affect the tempering of the metal. It provides little corrosion protection, but does hold a bit of oil to keep them from rusting in storage..

      Stainless screws are usually 18-8 (very similar to 302 or 304) which is soft, but work hardens fast. It can be tough to drill by hand because the first time the chip breaks the surface hardens and won't drill anymore.
       
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      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        Thanks. I'll get it did. I forgot a drill bit like a dumbass when we went into town today, but there's always tomorrow. lol
         
      • Phreakish

        Phreakish Well-Known Member

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        I have no doubt! Lots of cutting fluid and it should be fine. Just slow..
         
      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        Yeah I get caught up in the moment thinkin "hot dam it's cuttin good now!" and that's about when it breaks. lol
         
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        • vitamindart

          vitamindart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Sorry, I will try and look at those HV pumps I have tonight and let you know what I find.
           
        • Phreakish

          Phreakish Well-Known Member

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          I know that feeling! Pushing harder and harder, cutting better and better, then the bit buckles and snaps and I ram my drill and fist into the vise..
           
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          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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            Thanks! I think we're all going to find there's no HV 6 bolt pump.....but I don't know that for sure.
             
          • MJF

            MJF Well-Known Member

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            _medium.jpg

            I used VW oli squirter. Bolt has built in pressure valve, you won't lose idle pressure
             
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            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              That is very cool! Thank you. Do you happen to have a link where I can get one? That looks like the perfect choice.
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              I found them. Thank you!
               
            • volaredon

              volaredon Well-Known Member

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              Where? What VW application?
              And on your want for a HV pump... would putting the Hemi HP (hi pressure) somehow pull more "draw" and give you the extra volume you're wanting? The effect of HP would be diminished with all of your extra "leaks" with the full grooved bearings and this nozzle for the oil pump gear.
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              One like this.

              ENGINE OIL SQUIRTER JET SPRAYER VW JETTA MK5 05.5-06 TDI DIESEL BRM GENUINE OEM | eBay

              All the Hemi spring does is increase pressure. It takes a wider pump rotor to increase volume.....which essentially what you have with an aftermarket pump. Their rotor is 7/8 wide, from the stock 5/8. The true HV pump is 1" wide. But as I've been saying, it does not appear that a 6 bolt HV pump was ever made.
               
              Last edited: Jul 21, 2021
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              • vitamindart

                vitamindart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                RRR checked those pumps, both are 5 bolt as you suspected.
                 
              • volaredon

                volaredon Well-Known Member

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                I get the thicker rotor thing for volume, if the rest of the pump is otherwise the same/ relief, etc. But I thought that volume also increased when pressure is increased as well.
                 
              • Charrlie_S

                Charrlie_S Well-Known Member

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                That is true, but if the pump does not have enough pumping capacity (volume) it will not build pressure. The pressure relief valve will open and limit max pressure only if the pump has enough capacity. One way to see if the pump has enough capacity, is to increase engine speed, and check max oil pressure. Then increase the spring in the relief valve, and see if the pressure increases. If it does, the pump has enough capacity, if it does not, the valve is not opening and the pump does not have enough capacity.
                 
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