Oil Pump & Camshaft Gear Oiling Modification

Slant 6 Engines

  1. RustyRatRod

    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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    @pishta I took your advice and drilled and tapped the hole I originally drilled in the block to 1/8" NPT and got a 45* male/female fitting. It will work fine. I'll get a flush 1/8" NPT pipe plug and drill a hole in it at the right angle and it will blast oil all over those gears. I'm skiddish about the VW squirter because it has a check valve to malfunction.....and it would simply because it's me. I don't think a 1/6" hole drilled through the pipe plug will have a negative effect on idle oil pressure.
     
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    • volaredon

      volaredon Well-Known Member

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      Well project creep sets in again. Being my engine was in machine shop jail for so long, there has been alot of that since I started the build, seeing what "you guys are/have done to your engines hahaha.
      Considering I'm not using a HV pump whichever pump I use (I have 2 to pick from) both are 6 bolt style. I'm not building a race motor but at the same time I want to add any "hacks" available to make mine even more "indestructible" than they are known for as built.
      And being as how a previous slanted truck motor I had, failed at the cam gear as I described earlier in the post, you got me wondering if I should do this to mine /while it's still on the stand. I like the idea of the VW oiler as shown above. Seems like it was almost made for these engines, seeing how they fit the space and the aim they have.
      Along the "super indestructible" theme, I did acquire a steel (cast iron) distributor gear, in an old Napa box/ they still have /6 distributor gears but under the same PN as I have, they have regressed to nylon. I'd like to find 2 more of the metal versions. (Not home right now to check) but I think the PN of the metal version is/was DG404.
       
    • RustyRatRod

      RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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      Well, you will have to modify the tube on the VW oil squirter by bending it. No big deal. It does look like it will work well though.
       
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      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        As for the distributor gear, I wouldn't recommend a metal one. Millions have used the nylon gears without failure...and I bet I am right when I say any failures were probably the result of outside influences, rather than just the gear "going bad".
         
      • volaredon

        volaredon Well-Known Member

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        Well just like timing gear teeth, they get brittle being in an oil bath and with so many hot/cold cycles over the years.
         
      • RustyRatRod

        RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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        I would guess they do. I've never seen a broken one.
         
      • Charrlie_S

        Charrlie_S Well-Known Member

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        That is the correct NAPA part number. Even though I have at least one of these, I don't think I would use one. There is not that much load on the dist gear, that I feel it necessary. The nylon gears last several hundred thousand miles,in "road" type vehicles. I would rather have a nylon dist gear fail, then the metal dist gear. Nylon gear has zero chance of taking out the cam gear, unlike a metal gear.
         
      • slantsixdan

        slantsixdan =..=

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        Er…that's kind of a recipe for destructibility, not the other thing you say you're looking for. Think about it for a minute. Your distributor has a nylon drive pinion—the kind factory-installed on millions of Slant-6 engines. The distributor locks up for some reason—there are several. That sucks, but all that happens is the engine stops and you need to repair or replace the distributor.

        Okeh, now replace that nylon pinion with a metal one, lock up the distributor, and the damage gets quite a lot more extensive and expensive, starting with shredding the camshaft worm and easily spreading to the nearby oil pump, etc.

        The nylon pinion, installed correctly, is much more than adequate. If you have some strange fear its durability is inadequate, make a note to change it every three decades whether it needs it or not.
         
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        • RustyRatRod

          RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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          Every three decades. <snort> lol I can't actually believe companies sell steel slant 6 distributor gears and distributors with they, but they do. You know how many slant 6 distributor gears I've seen fail? ONE. You know when? Last night when I finished rebuilding my slant 6 electronic distributor. You know why? Because I tapped the roll pin in it ant the other side wasn't lined up perfectly and split the gear. Operator error. Other than that, I've never seen a bad one.
           
        • volaredon

          volaredon Well-Known Member

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          I've seen it a few times. That nylon gear eats itself. But I have never seen a distributor lock up before.
           
        • volaredon

          volaredon Well-Known Member

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          Not very often as far as I can see. Gotta found "old stock" to get them. I got mine via someone over on .org that lives kinda by me, that had a couple in a drawer in his toolbox
           
        • pishta

          pishta I know I'm right....

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          My Mazda b2000 distributor seized up and snapped its drive shaft. It had to have seized up at the bushing because the cam and distributor gear were unphased. Had a friend with a Honda one of and his camshafts seized and snapped in half right at a bearing journal. I'm not even sure there was a bearing insert. Lots of torque on those parts being driven by the timing chain or belt or helical drive.
           
        • volaredon

          volaredon Well-Known Member

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          Well there you go. I wouldn't have a hon-duh even if it was free
           
        • slantsixdan

          slantsixdan =..=

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          …and the consequences are limited to needing a minor, easy repair.

          All it takes is a piece breaking off the rotor or cap—which happens oftener than you might think. In years past it used to happen primarily because of brittle cap and rotor material. That still happens, but now we also have poor cap:rotor fit breaking stuff. If nothing else, read and follow the suggestions in this long (but worthwhile) thread.
           
          Last edited: Jul 27, 2021
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          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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            Alright, @pishta see what you think about this. I got a 1/8" npt street elbow, screwed a flush 1/8" npt plug in the end and drilled an 1/8" hole right on the outside of the female hex. The hole lines up dead center with the middle of the oil pump gear.
            OILER ELBOW.jpg
             
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            • pishta

              pishta I know I'm right....

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              Looks like the deck of a Navy ship! That'll hose 'er! Hope the cam still fits.....:D

              I was thinking a drilled hole diagonally from the pressure cavity would hit it but it would be tough to aim.
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              Well, the cam fits in the engine fine, but the lobe there hits the elbow. So, the VW oiler it is. I'll get one comin this week.
               
            • vitamindart

              vitamindart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              what about using a small piece of 3/16 brake line threaded into a fitting in your tapped hole? should be smaller than 1/8" inside?
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              Well after some more thought, I believe I am going to try something similar to this, instead. I went ahead and plugged the hole through the side of the block with an 1/8" pipe plug and the hole in the oil pump web with a 1/16" pipe plug. I am going to go directly into the main oil galley from the inside and tap that to "whatever" size bolt holds that oil squirter in. I believe it's 8mm. That way, instead of having to use the six bolt oil pump, which is not available in the HV model, I can use the five bolt HV model, which was my intention all along. That's the whole point of this. I WANT to run the HV pump. I firmly believe with the direct pressure oiling the gear will live just fine, even with the extra loads, especially using the factory Chrysler cam cores, which I intend to do. I will update when I have some more done.
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              Aight den, @pishta I got this oiler just like I wanted it. Unbelievably, it turned out pretty good. Remember, I plugged the last two oil feed holes, because the only available HV pump was the five bolt and to run that mod, you have to run a six bolt pump and all that's available is the standard volume. I'm damned hard headed. I want to run the HV pump. I know all the risks. So here's what I did.

              I measured off where the oil squirter would need to be located on the inside of the block, but right in the middle of the main oil galley. So, I marked and center punched the corresponding spot on the outside if the block and....you guessed it, drilled a hole right through the block, through both the outside wall and inside wall of the main oil galley. I tapped the outside to 1/4" pipe so I can plug it off with a 1/4" pipe plug, but I tapped the inside hole to 8mm 1.00. I got an oil squirter for "some kinda" Sea Doo, and rebent it so it will squirt all over the camshaft gear, which will SOAK all three gears. The camshaft even fits with the squirter installed. So now, I can run the five bolt HV pump like I wanted to in the first place. I believe the oil squirter will both cool and lubricate the oil pump and camshaft gears to the point that they will not fail. I'm gonna find the heck out.
              DSCF1623.JPG DSCF1622.JPG
               
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              • pishta

                pishta I know I'm right....

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                F'n A! Hose those gears~! :thumbsup:
                 
              • volaredon

                volaredon Well-Known Member

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                suggestion along these lines (and a question too, for $#!ts and giggles) How close does the nozzle have to be, to actually touching the gears (of course without actually touching!!!) to direct a suitable stream of oil to those gears? I have an idea..... I ain't sayin it's a "good" idea, but its an idea. How bout that 45* NPT elbow with a nozzle-jet from something like a fertilizer sprayer threaded into THAT???? the way some of those spray, I'm thinking you only gotta aim "close" to accomplish what you are going for? I mean that oil will be pressurized after all.... we used similar stainless nozzles, as a water spray cooling setup in my millwright days at the old steel mill.
                Those type of nozzles are available with different orifice sizes, and spray at different angles, and such.... Im thinking a 30* cone, "kinda close" to the target area, should be plenty.
                 
              • RustyRatRod

                RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                Go for it. That's all I did. Just started drillin holes....I knew once I did THAT, I'd either have to plug them of follow through. lol
                 
              • RustyRatRod

                RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                So what's your opinion? You think it'll work? I'm confident.
                 
              • pishta

                pishta I know I'm right....

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                Bravo....I think the helical rotation of the distributor gear will pull that oil right in and distribute it to all involved..Remember the Lucas oil treatment demonstration gearbox on the counter of Supershops? You turn the gears and you can see the lucas prepped side pull all that oil up into the gears? Never notices the dual pattern gears on your oil pump....is that 'natural'?
                 
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