Ok, you guys talked me into rebuilding myself, I need help now ;)

[CultClassik]

So, this has been a total pain since it's a 67 (904) transmission....should have thrown it away but hey it's the original one from the car. I'll probably throw away that 273 but that's another story.

I'm almost done here....I got a rebuild kit without frictions/steels, bushing kit, thrust washer kit, TF-2, and some other goodies.

The two clutch packs are complete. The front pack where I did 5 thin frictions instead of 4 standard...after soaking them all in ATF fluid, the clearance seems a bit off. I THINK you're supposed to check clearance wet, if so, mine only comes to .30 or so, which I guess means I need a new snap ring or have the plate machined..what say you, FABO? The rear clutch pack is good on clearance.

Other issues -
1. The thrust washer kit is all wrong. The only thing that looks right are the fiber washers, big woop. Unless I missed something, there's only two larger washers that came out of the planetary assembly. The kit came with some that are similar (3 tabs) but they are too big. I went ahead and checked the end play with the old washers, I think it came out around .32, manual says .33 max....should I try to get the right washers and replace them? I'm guessing that will tighten it up a bit.

2. Seal rings...it came with a bunch of metal ones and I guess the others are teflon. Lots "left over". I used all but one of the metal rings, a small one with the locking ends. It appears the 3 metal rings that came off the kickdown piston have no replacements (metal ones) in the rebuild kit...am I supposed to use these teflon ones? They don't look like they'll seal like the metal ones. Also, should there be a bunch left over??

3. The bushing kit....I think it came with 2-3 extras and it didn't come with one for the front pump. Well, not one that's the same as what I knocked out of there. EDIT: Ok it's the stator bushing....trying to figure out which one goes in there.

I think that's it for now...stupid 67 transmission.

 

[mullinax95]

fishy68 might be able to help you out

 

[Oklacarcollecto]

Ok, you guys talked me into rebuilding myself, I need help now ;)

With inflation are you going to be the new 60 million dollar man?

Good luck on the tranny rebuild. Subscribed.

 

[CultClassik]

How did I know that would come into play ;)

I'm always leary of having leftover parts, however, I assume a lot of these kits cover various years, etc. I'm just not sure why there's so many teflon pieces - I know there's not that many rings in the transmission and I replaced them as I removed the old ones.

Maybe I can use them on my elbows and such, for my 60 million dollar man build.

 

[70aarcuda]

you suppose to check the clutch clearance with the disc dry....

match up the old sealing ring to the new ones....and yes some are telfon or plastic stuff...

.030 is too tight for the front drum with 5 disc in it...needs to be at least .050 (,010-.012 per disc)

you will have left over parts as the kits are made to service many different years of 904s.....cheaper to include a couple extra to sealing rings and whatnots then make entire kits year specific..

 

[CultClassik]

Just making sure, since (I think it was the FSM) said to soak them and then the clearance checking came after that, but I've seen people say to check them dry. .030 is with them WET, and they are of course going to be thicker when wet - either way, I can't measure dry now

I *think* that's a good measurement, seems like most people use .060-.070 with five discs, but I assume that is the dry measurement. Are you saying it should be .050 with them WET?

 

[fishy68]

What AARTony said and it sounds like they sent you 727 thrust washers. Unless your old thrust washers were trashed new ones won't tighten it up too much. You need to use a thicker thrust washer between the input and output shafts to reduce end play. They make them in 3 thicknesses but not all kits come with the different sizes. The sizes are .052~.053", .068~.070", and .083~.086". BTW: you also check end play with no lube on any of the thrust washers, is that how you checked it? Dry the clutch plates and steels off and re-check the clearance in them and you might be ok. If it's still too tight you'll need a thinner selective snap ring or mill the pressure plate. The rear clutch pack can be tighter than the front cause it's not a shifting clutch. .035~.040" is ok for it but like Tony said you need at least .050" bare minimum for the front pack. Personally I like to see .060~.070". I've never seen teflon sealing rings used on a servo, only the stator. I'd find new ones for the servo as the old ones are probably worn enough they won't seal up right.

 

[CultClassik]

Great, thanks - I will check these things out tonight. I found the stator bushing at wittrans.com, went ahead and ordered other items (since I'm being charged $15 shipping no matter what) like a few washers, snap rings for the direct clutch pack, etc. I have called that place several times over the past few weeks - never an answer, voicemail goes to some guy, never get a return call. They did call me and leave a voice mail telling me a few things are not available and that they're shipping anyway, and to hurry up and call back if I want to cancel instead. I see a lot of recommendations for this place, but if you can find your parts elsewhere, I'd steer clear, they're kind of a pain. Transmissionpartsusa.com has been GREAT on the other hand, and their prices are fantastic with free shipping over a certain amount (not $250 like WIT).

Now...if I re-measure the direct clutch pack and it needs adjustment, I will have to have the plate machined since the snap ring isn't available :/

I KNEW I should have tossed the 67 trans and grabbed a later model. Sad thing is, this trans was in great shape (other than two inches of grime stuck to the outside of the case). It even had a wide red band, aluminum accum piston and a 4.2 lever already....and it's been sitting since at least 1980!

 

[fishy68]

That's odd. I've ordered from WITT a couple times and had no trouble getting through and got fast service, although it's been a few months since I last ordered from them. I can't remember where their at but I wonder if maybe their in an area hit by a bad storm or fire and was out of power? Been a lot of crap happening all over lately.

Try www.aandatrans.com or www.coperacingtrans.com if you need a different selective snap ring if you don't want to spend several bucks getting the PP machined. Another place that might have a snap ring is www.bulkpart.com They don't have them listed on their website but Mike has other parts available.

As for tossing the 67 trans. I think the case is basically identical to a newer one. Just mainly the front section inside and valve body are different. It's easy to convert an early one to a late version. A lot of guys do that to install a low gear set and to update it to the newer larger torque converter register.

 

[CultClassik]

Thanks for the info!

I actualy measured my snap ring and it's .060 which is the thinnest one, then I can't find a place that can machine the PP, they say it takes special equipment to hold it while milling weird thing is I can install the frictions plates and snap ring without using the spring compressor, you'd think that wouldn't be the case right?

The main two differences about this one (for me) is needing the Pat Blais adapter to use it on a later engine, and the rear band is single wrap. I don't know how much of a difference that makes but I went ahead and got a kevlar band (wide red in front) to hopefully compensate for the single wrap.

This and the front drum bushing replacement (the driver set from autozone didn't have one big enough and I don't have a socket that size to use either) are the last two things I need to put this thing in. Argh!

 

[CultClassik]

..aaand I just dropped off the drum at the local trans shop to have them replace that bushing. The expert there told me in badly broken English that you guys are all wrong and that the only way to do it is use thinner steels. Reminds me why I never have taken a car to a mechanic.

I did measure the original clutch stack and the new one out of curiosity. Difference of .040 (newer is thicker of course, .618 vs .658 ) No surprise I guess.

Also...the soaked but now dried as best I could red thins measure .061, .061, .062, .062 and .063 so I guess I have an extra .004 in there from soaking.

 

[fishy68]

Thanks for the info!

I actualy measured my snap ring and it's .060 which is the thinnest one, then I can't find a place that can machine the PP, they say it takes special equipment to hold it while milling weird thing is I can install the frictions plates and snap ring without using the spring compressor, you'd think that wouldn't be the case right?

Yeah not just everyone can machine the pressure plate down. I generally don't have a problem getting the right clearance by mixing and matching different thickness discs (front clutch and rear clutch discs are a different thickness) and selective snap rings. You can install the discs and plates cause there isn't any tension on them until hydraulic pressure is applied to the piston in the bottom of the drum. If everything was tight how would it work?

The main two differences about this one (for me) is needing the Pat Blais adapter to use it on a later engine, and the rear band is single wrap. I don't know how much of a difference that makes but I went ahead and got a kevlar band (wide red in front) to hopefully compensate for the single wrap.

The kevlar band will work fine. That's what I always do.

This and the front drum bushing replacement (the driver set from autozone didn't have one big enough and I don't have a socket that size to use either) are the last two things I need to put this thing in. Argh!

My bushing driver set doesn't have everything I need so I scrounged up different diameters of pipe to use as drivers. Watch using sockets as most are beveled and will destroy a bushing if your not real careful.

BTW: did you air pressure test the clutch packs to make sure they sealed up properly? If not ya better. Not much worse than putting it all together and it don't work only to find out a lip seal rolled on you. I bench test the clutch packs before I install them into the case and then again after I get the pump installed just to make absolutely sure everything will work. You also need to air pressure test the servo's. don't know if your YouTube video's showed all that but if they didn't let me know and I'll splain it with pics.

 

[fishy68]

..aaand I just dropped off the drum at the local trans shop to have them replace that bushing. The expert there told me in badly broken English that you guys are all wrong and that the only way to do it is use thinner steels. Reminds me why I never have taken a car to a mechanic.

LOL.... What a tool. Guess he's never read a Chrysler or ATSG transmission manual. Probably cause it was written in English.ops:

I did measure the original clutch stack and the new one out of curiosity. Difference of .040 (newer is thicker of course, .618 vs .658 ) No surprise I guess.

Also...the soaked but now dried as best I could red thins measure .061, .061, .062, .062 and .063 so I guess I have an extra .004 in there from soaking.

Minor variances like that are normal. That's partly how I get the clearance where I want it.

 

[CultClassik]

I haven't messed with the air pressure tests yet but I plan to, for sure. My goal is to not have to pull the transmission out after it's in

I gave up on the 5 thins and ordered four of the regular thickness alto frictions. That's now my last item needed to button this thing up and get it in the car. More than likely this transmission is more than enough for any engine I'll put in this car but at an additional cost of like $12 the 5 disc upgrade was very attractive.

I'm getting really pumped to see how (if?) it works!

 

[CultClassik]

Got good clunks on the front and rear drum air tests, both band servos function. Pretty excited, hopefully I will get this swapped back in the car tonight and get to drive it soon if that one last ball joint ever shows up.

 

[fishy68]

Sounds like your making good progress. Let us all know how it turns out.

 

[scrappydoo]

Hi, I don't mean to hijack this thread but I'll be rebuilding my tranny soon and it's a 1967 a904 just like the OP's.
Starting a new thread I think will get lost in the noise when searching for 904.

Fishy68, can you, or anyone else, let me know what I will need to rebuild a stock 1967 904 to handle the torque from a strong 408, that will be a street cruiser with the occasional blast down the quarter.
As I'm in Australia getting parts takes a few weeks from being ordered and I don't want to be caught out needing a part in the middle of the rebuild.
I've done a lot of searching on the subject but can't find any post that is definitive in what is needed.
Please help my with shopping list in other words.

Thanks.

 

[CultClassik]

Pretty much what I got should do the trick-
Overhaul Kit
High perf frictions, either 4 red std thickness or the 5 thins, this was an issue for me
Wide red front band
Either red or kevlar single wrap rear band
Sonnax rev piston kit
Transgo TF2 shift kit is nice
3.8 or 4.2 kickdown lever (mine already had the 4.2, probably wasn't stock as a few pieces had already been upgraded)
Aluminum accumulator piston if yours has plastic - mine already had aluminum

Pretty simple when you don't have to find a million threads about it. There are other things you can upgrade like a bolt in sprag etc but I think unless you are really doing a lot of racing, the items above should do fine. I'm sure fishy and others will chime in as well.

 

[TrailBeast]

Fishy, I love your precise explanations.

Just a note if I may.
If you are blocking the servo it is recommended to use D rings on it. (zero leak down)
Steel rings are second best, then teflon.
Also teflon rings wear sealing surfaces more that the steel ones believe it or not.

And to the OP, I used a metal lathe to turn down the edge of the pressure plate for clearance and any decent machine shop can do the same buy chucking the inside of the pressure plate.
Let me see if I can find a pic BRB

Dammit, doubled up on that since FABO hiccuped during the post, sorry.

 

[TrailBeast]

Fishy, I love the way you explain things to people.

I used to use a standard lathe and chuck the pressure plate from the inside circumference like this.
Then take down the outer edge of the plate for more clearance.
Sounds like the shop he talked to didn't want to mess with it.

One other thing if I may.
If the servo is going to be blocked the D rings are reccomended on the servo.

Just a FYI, did you know that teflon rings wear the sealing surfaces more than steel rings?
They do.
Look at the ring lands on a pump or front drum for example that used teflon, then compare to a pump or drum that used steel locking rings.
Much more wear from the teflons on both surfaces.

Minor variances like that are normal. That's partly how I get the clearance where I want it.

 

[fishy68]

Pretty much what I got should do the trick-
Overhaul Kit
High perf frictions, either 4 red std thickness or the 5 thins, this was an issue for me
Wide red front band
Either red or kevlar single wrap rear band
Sonnax rev piston kit
Transgo TF2 shift kit is nice
3.8 or 4.2 kickdown lever (mine already had the 4.2, probably wasn't stock as a few pieces had already been upgraded)
Aluminum accumulator piston if yours has plastic - mine already had aluminum

Pretty simple when you don't have to find a million threads about it. There are other things you can upgrade like a bolt in sprag etc but I think unless you are really doing a lot of racing, the items above should do fine. I'm sure fishy and others will chime in as well.

I don't remember if I mentioned it here but if I did please excuse my bad memory. Watch that Sonnax reverse piston. I bought one several yrs. ago and it was cut too small. So small in fact that it'd easily flip in the bore. I found a good used one and it was a bunch tighter.

 

[TrailBeast]

Good call, I had forgotten about that.
Now tell em how to tell if it happens. Wait for it,,,,,,,

I don't remember if I mentioned it here but if I did please excuse my bad memory. Watch that Sonnax reverse piston. I bought one several yrs. ago and it was cut too small. So small in fact that it'd easily flip in the bore. I found a good used one and it was a bunch tighter.