Opinions on valve keepers..... (poll)

Discussion in 'Small Block Mopar Engine' started by 318willrun, Oct 8, 2018.

Which way you like your keepers

  1. Both ends touching is no problem

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. I like a small gap

    76.5%
  3. either way works fine

    23.5%
  1. 318willrun

    318willrun Stomper 4x4... we kept energizer in business

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    Some valve keepers touch on both ends, especially on the exhaust. Some have a small gap on one end. Is there a concern either way?????? Could the keepers touching on both ends actually not be all the way seated on the valve?? I guess I'm generally talking stock LA small block heads, but bring any discussion to the table.
    Gap picture
    picture0113171739_1-jpg.jpg

    No Gap Picture
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2018
  2. 318willrun

    318willrun Stomper 4x4... we kept energizer in business

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    As the creator of this thread, I'm not going to give my opinion, just curious on what the professional engine builders or shade tree mechanics have to say.... :)
     
  3. Max1196

    Max1196 Well-Known Member

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    First thing, are you dealing with a single groove, two groove or four groove keeper?
     
  4. 12many

    12many Well-Known Member

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    Daily commuter engine I believe the 2-3 groove exhaust keepers will butt, so the valve can rotate. I learned from some Mopar article decades ago to grind down the ends equally so they grab the valve. Preferred the Isky machined single groove keepers offered by Direct Connection.
     
  5. Murray

    Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Good point. Have never seen it make a difference. Usually buy new retainers and keepers from a reputable source and just install.
     
  6. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

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    For whatever reason my damn phone won't unlock the second picture! so I don't have a comparison of what the heck you're talking about. As I'm reading I'm going man I need a picture. Then one comes up and then no comparison damn it!
     
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    • 318willrun

      318willrun Stomper 4x4... we kept energizer in business

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      Ok, for the sake of the discussion, factory 2/4 groove. But, if single groove is a difference, one can point that out as well
       
    • 318willrun

      318willrun Stomper 4x4... we kept energizer in business

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      IF you can't get the picture, j par, then just picture both ends of the keeper touching in the retainer
       
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      • Duane

        Duane Well-Known Member

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        To me this thread is not specific enough. Are we street driven only or
        Race only.
        10 degree,super 7 or 8 degree locks.
        Generally a single lock 10 degree that do not butt together is an all out race setup. 8 degree that butt together can fail and drop a valve at high spring load/high rpm.
         
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        • 318willrun

          318willrun Stomper 4x4... we kept energizer in business

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          Stock LA small block heads was what I generally had in mind, but I think the discussion is worth all that you brought to the table. I just added this to the original post, thanks
           
        • Murray

          Murray FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Do you see what you started? I hope we all learn something.
           
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          • Max1196

            Max1196 Well-Known Member

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            Single groove, I'll refer to them as chev style, do not touch on the ends, making it such that there is no rotation of the valve possible unless equipped with a rotator.
            2 groove style, as used on a Mopar 3/8 stem exhaust valve does not touch, these are used with a rotator so the rotator does the job.
            4 groove style as used on a Mopar 3/8 stem valve do touch on the ends, making it such that any movement can exist between the valve and the rest of the components, it can rotate if it wants to.
            4 grove version as used on a Ford 11/32 stem valve is not desirable in a performance application because it will wreck the valve grooves of the valve, swap to a single groove for performance app.
            Each style has it's own specific need and purpose.
             
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            • 318willrun

              318willrun Stomper 4x4... we kept energizer in business

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              This is what I hoped to start. It's a subject seldom talked about. Often overlooked. I agree, there is something to learn. Another member and myself started this discussion privately, so we thought it would be fun to roll it out for discussion.
               
            • Dicer

              Dicer Well-Known Member

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            • 318willrun

              318willrun Stomper 4x4... we kept energizer in business

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            • j par

              j par Well-hung Member

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              Well at least the second picture in the second showing here showed LOL now I can see what the heck you talking about..
               
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              • Duane

                Duane Well-Known Member

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                Why do you call the single groove as Chev Style, never heard the term before.
                 
              • j par

                j par Well-hung Member

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                I would have never have thought about gaining or losing movement. I would have more thought the Gap would have been needed for heat expansion.
                Learning...:popcorn:
                 
              • Duane

                Duane Well-Known Member

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                What I am hoping to learn is whether there is more than one style of single lock.
                I only know the race style. In the race style there is a gap so that the locks are gripping the entire end of the valve. The taper and the spring pressure are forcing the locks onto the valve stem.
                I thought many years ago that I read that comp cams pioneered the 10 degree lock to spread the spring pressures over the retainer better. Even many more years ago a friend blew up his ford 302 when the locks pulled right through the retainer and dropped a valve
                Into the cylinder. But I also know that the chev v6 engines use a lock where the ends do not touch.
                 
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                • brian6pac

                  brian6pac Well-Known Member

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                  The way I understand it single grove locks on the valve and don't touch and don't rotate.
                  Multi groove locks on the retainer and the ends touch and let the valve rotate.
                   
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                  • brian6pac

                    brian6pac Well-Known Member

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                    I've also heard from many races not to run 10* locks because there is not enough taper to lock it in the retainer and they bounce out at high RPM
                     
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                    • Duane

                      Duane Well-Known Member

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                      I think you have that reversed. The 10 degree locks have more taper
                      Than a 7 or 8 degree to better lock. Almost all race style retainers are 10 degree. But a couple years ago Ryan Johnson showed me a nascar super 7 but it very much looked like a 10 in the way it spread out over the retainer. The ford engine that I mentioned blew up had 8 degree retainers. Pulled through reving up in the driveway.
                       
                    • Dicer

                      Dicer Well-Known Member

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                      The springs have a twisting action made into them it is how they are. The keepers and valve grooves have very little with not letting the valve twist. The rotation action helps keep the valve and seat clear of debris to ensure good sealing and even wear. Yes some of the older engines and aircraft have rotators on the exhaust, not many cars that I am aware of......
                       
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                      • nm9stheham

                        nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                        Can't tell for sure but the keepers in pix #2 don't look 100% seated.
                         
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                        • Mattax

                          Mattax Just the facts, ma'am FABO Gold Member

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                          FWIW. AMC - factory type - was 4 groove and the keepers touch.

                          IMG_4652.JPG

                          IMG_4658.JPG

                          IMG_5882.JPG
                           
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