Opinions please

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RustyRatRod

I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday.
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I usually don't post a lot of personal business stuff........but.........I would like some opinions. For me or against me, that's ok. I am just looking for input.

Alright, here's the story.

Bout a month or so ago, I was approached at work by a fairly regular customer and pretty cool old dude. Been out to his house before to check out his cars and all. He's a Chevy guy, but that's ok, he has some cool stuff.

Anyway, he asks me if I wouldnt mind takin a look at an old 396 he has to see if it;s any good. SO I said sure. I went to get it and this thing is a rolling pile of rust. So much so that the old cool Erson valve covers are rusted slam through and you can see the rusted valve train. I told him I would not charge him my going rate (50 an hour) but I would go 20 an hour since he's a good customer and I consider him a friend. He agreed.

So I take the thing home. First thing I notice is the intake bolts are so rusted, a socket or wrench will not fit. I had to remove the heads and intake as one piece. I later chiseled the intake bolts out one flat at the time. Very time consuming.

Once I got the heads off, I realized this was a very rusted up engine. So much so, I decided it was the worst one I had ever seen. So I called him and let him know. He said "go ahead and get it apart". So I proceeded.

I propped up each deck surface level and poured Evaporust in the cylinders and let it sit in each bank for about four days each. I didn't charge him for the time it sat. I took turns pounding the pistons with a whittled 4x4 alternating between the very rusted ones.

Slowly, I began to get one piston out here and one out there. I finally got it all apart. I need to back up and say when I removed the drain plug from the oil pan, I got almost a gallon of coolant and maybe one quart of oil, so I knew I was in for trouble.

I honestly have about 15 hours on and off working on tearing this thing down, but decided to only charge for 10. I swear yall, this thing any machine shop would have told him to come get it and never bring it back. It was that bad.

So, I got it completely disassembled. I called him up and gave him the verdict. He wanted to know if it would be worth building that one, OR one he found locally, fresh, ready to go for 2800. I told him "it's a no brainer, go for the 2800". He asked what he owed me. I told him what I had in it. 200 bucks. 10 hours times my cut rate of 20 per hour labor.......which I think is a deal. He agreed to let me just have the engine in trade, so I agreed.

Yesterday, he called me and said he wanted his engine back. He said he couldn't believe I had ten hours getting it apart. I let him know I actually have more than that and that I cut my rate by 30 an hour because he is such a good customer at work. I also let him know that I have purchased a few parts planning on a future 396 build and that put me even more into it than the labor that we both agreed to trade the engine itself for. He got mad and hung up.

I called him back and told him he did not need to call me at work talking to me like a child and he apologized. But I know he still has hard feelings about this. So what would yall do? Did I do something wrong here? I don't think so. I gave him a deal. He agreed to it. He agreed to let me have the engine for the labor and now he wants the engine back without giving me a dime. So what say you?
 
Mechanics lien? No cash, no engine. Plain and simple for me. You were fair, he was good with it. He talked to somebody later that told him "how much it is worth" and he backed out.
In not so many words, F&^$ him.
 
A good customer would understand what you when through on the teardown. Photo documentation would have been nice to have now. I would nicely ask for the money agreed on and ask him to pick up his motor.
The above was highly edited from what I would really like to say.
 
I usually don't post a lot of personal business stuff........but.........I would like some opinions. For me or against me, that's ok. I am just looking for input.

Alright, here's the story.

Bout a month or so ago, I was approached at work by a fairly regular customer and pretty cool old dude. Been out to his house before to check out his cars and all. He's a Chevy guy, but that's ok, he has some cool stuff.

Anyway, he asks me if I wouldnt mind takin a look at an old 396 he has to see if it;s any good. SO I said sure. I went to get it and this thing is a rolling pile of rust. So much so that the old cool Erson valve covers are rusted slam through and you can see the rusted valve train. I told him I would not charge him my going rate (50 an hour) but I would go 20 an hour since he's a good customer and I consider him a friend. He agreed.

So I take the thing home. First thing I notice is the intake bolts are so rusted, a socket or wrench will not fit. I had to remove the heads and intake as one piece. I later chiseled the intake bolts out one flat at the time. Very time consuming.

Once I got the heads off, I realized this was a very rusted up engine. So much so, I decided it was the worst one I had ever seen. So I called him and let him know. He said "go ahead and get it apart". So I proceeded.

I propped up each deck surface level and poured Evaporust in the cylinders and let it sit in each bank for about four days each. I didn't charge him for the time it sat. I took turns pounding the pistons with a whittled 4x4 alternating between the very rusted ones.

Slowly, I began to get one piston out here and one out there. I finally got it all apart. I need to back up and say when I removed the drain plug from the oil pan, I got almost a gallon of coolant and maybe one quart of oil, so I knew I was in for trouble.

I honestly have about 15 hours on and off working on tearing this thing down, but decided to only charge for 10. I swear yall, this thing any machine shop would have told him to come get it and never bring it back. It was that bad.

So, I got it completely disassembled. I called him up and gave him the verdict. He wanted to know if it would be worth building that one, OR one he found locally, fresh, ready to go for 2800. I told him "it's a no brainer, go for the 2800". He asked what he owed me. I told him what I had in it. 200 bucks. 10 hours times my cut rate of 20 per hour labor.......which I think is a deal. He agreed to let me just have the engine in trade, so I agreed.

Yesterday, he called me and said he wanted his engine back. He said he couldn't believe I had ten hours getting it apart. I let him know I actually have more than that and that I cut my rate by 30 an hour because he is such a good customer at work. I also let him know that I have purchased a few parts planning on a future 396 build and that put me even more into it than the labor that we both agreed to trade the engine itself for. He got mad and hung up.

I called him back and told him he did not need to call me at work talking to me like a child and he apologized. But I know he still has hard feelings about this. So what would yall do? Did I do something wrong here? I don't think so. I gave him a deal. He agreed to it. He agreed to let me have the engine for the labor and now he wants the engine back without giving me a dime. So what say you?

I say give him a price he could buy you out of it for, and otherwise a deal is a deal and if he doesn't understand that then he sucks not you.
He just told one of his buddy's and they said he could get a lot more than 200 for the 396.
Buy you out or a deal is a deal, and F him if he can't understand that.
I don't mean for the original 200 either.

Tell him your new business manager said he can put in a bid on it.:D
 
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Tell him to go F himself and you keep the block. The deal you gave him was very fair.
and bill him for the extra 30 an hour and charge him for 6. lol
 
I had this same offer made to me few years ago. I went to the mans hose, he shows me a pile of rusted **** 383 and wanted me to rebuild it for him. I tried to explain to him that with all the rust I could see, It just isn't worth it and refused to take it. He wasn't happy but at least it ended there. Me in your shoes? Tell him $200.00 and he can have the motor. Or keep it.
 
Thanks yall......but here's the skinny on WHAT the engine actually is. It's a 1968 truck 396. 2 bolt block, CAST crank, horrible HUGE open chamber heads, so it's worth about as low as a big block Chevy can go. Now that doesn't mean it's totally worthless, but certainly WAY down on the totem pole of Chevy specialness. PLUS, I have YET to determine WHERE the coolant was getting into the oil pan. It may well have a cracked block, in which case that leaves me SOL.
 
It's funny how normal appearing people can turn psycho on us. Give 'em the damn boat anchor back and give thanks to God you found out what a nut he was before he really goes crazy. Write off the time wasted to being a "learning experience" that you never predicted, but should have known beforehand that offering a person a deal on anything has about a 50/50 chance on backfiring on 'ya. Try your best to erase the entire incident from your memory banks or watch "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" again and wish you could find that clinic in the movie somewhere.
 
It's funny how normal appearing people can turn psycho on us. Give 'em the damn boat anchor back and give thanks to God you found out what a nut he was before he really goes crazy. Write off the time wasted to being a "learning experience" that you never predicted, but should have known beforehand that offering a person a deal on anything has about a 50/50 chance on backfiring on 'ya. Try your best to erase the entire incident from your memory banks or watch "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind" again and wish you could find that clinic in the movie somewhere.

This is actually what I am thinking about doing.
 
File under 'no good deed goes unpunished', Triple R...seems like a lot of people don't appreciate favors. I've found it's usually better to tell them up front, "This is probably going to cost <2 or 3 times what you think it will>...you still want to do this?" Then, if you under-run, they're happy. That, and don't cut your rates for anyone...
 
File under 'no good deed goes unpunished', Triple R...seems like a lot of people don't appreciate favors. I've found it's usually better to tell them up front, "This is probably going to cost <2 or 3 times what you think it will>...you still want to do this?" Then, if you under-run, they're happy. That, and don't cut your rates for anyone...

Well, my health hasn't been what it used to be in a while now. I FEEL good, BUT I am now having trouble with my feet from working on concrete all my life. Plantar Fasciitis is what I have been diagnosed with. Look it up. It's a *****. But since I feel good other than that, I THOUGHT I would try and do a little something on the side like I used to do and help somebody out.

Also........and I know this ain't the best place to say this.....LOL but I have been pining for another big block Chevy build. Had a lot of them through the years and I loved them. They just make a lot of power and on the cheap. So I thought after this, "what better opportunity?" Then the guy flipped out. But it's ok I guess. I'll take it up the butt if I have to, to be the bigger person. But I have a lot of aggravation in it too, because of my health. So much for trying to help someone out.
 
My opinion? You should've stopped after getting the heads off and told him to come and get it.

Also, you're a worn out grumpy old prick. With nice boobs.
 
My opinion? You should've stopped after getting the heads off and told him to come and get it.

Also, you're a worn out grumpy old prick. With nice boobs.

I sorta did that. I called him when I got the heads off. I told him exactly how bad it was and advised him then to stop. He told me to keep going. So I did. If the block's not cracked anywhere, I've saved it. The crank is good......even though it's cast. The rods are good, but the pistons of course cannot be used again. It will ultimately make a nice engine........IF it's not cracked.
 
Some of these old guys still have there heads in an era where things cost a lot less. They completely forget these are our adult tinker toys and my Mama always said "if ya wanna play, you gotta pay!".
I'd give him back his tinker toys and not play with him anymore.
You couldn't pay me to keep it if someone was acting like that.
Politely bring it back and know your rewards are coming...
My-2
 
Was the gal in your Avatar in "total recall" ?
She wasn't the one with three boobs?
 
Also when I joined this forum you had butthead and that's what made me think you were smart.
 
I'd walk away....eat the labor and know not to work a side job for him ever again. .....

Jeff
 
You know you're a great guy Rusty, so as tough as it may seem I'd chalk it up to life experience, eat the $200 and give him the engine back. Since you don't know how the water got in the crankcase, I'd just give it back to him and hope his machinist charges him $500 to hot tank it and tell him the block is cracked. Just make sure this jerk doesn't go around telling everyone how you "gave" him a cracked block. You just can't make some people happy..... I'm sure he's related to my ex!
 
This is why I don't charge friends a dime (unless I buy something on their behalf, but only with receipt), but don't sell them anything either.

Tell him to come get it, payment is up to him because you don't think it's worth bad feelings over, and walk away. Motor's probably junk any way. It IS a Chevy, after all. Can't be that hard to find another.

Sad part is, most folks around here will trash you even after that.
 
Engine for labor doesn’t seem unreasonable at all. My uncle and I bought a 71 402 to build for his camaro a few years ago. It was in a similar condition and needed a sleeve. The price? 200$ I saw the valve covers through a bag over the motor in the driveway and asked about it. The question is, are you going to lose money or business from this? Is he going to bad mouth you about it? Apparently he doesn’t realize what 50yrs could do to a motor.
 
My opinion? You should've stopped after getting the heads off and told him to come and get it.

Also, you're a worn out grumpy old prick. With nice boobs.

I just want to point out, for the record, that I did click on the green check mark at the bottom of the post.

I agree with most all of it. Except the boob part. I have no desire to see, feel or think about rusts boobs.

Other than that...I agree with the post. I just wanted that clear.



Rusty, me...I think for the sake of seeing this guy at work and dealing with him you're better off giving it back to him and eating the money. Sucks but who wants to see his sour puss every time he comes in? Or lose a customer.

This is how I became a prick. Seriously. At one time I was a damn nice guy. Then stuff like this happens. I won't touch stuff like this.

I had a customer come it with a set of beat up 390 ford heads. I tell him they are PROBABLY cracked. I won't know UNTIL they are apart, cleaned and I can mag them. He says "can you run a wire brush between the valves and see if they are broke there". So I do it and tell him I see no cracks, but they don't always crack like that. So he wants his junk cleaned and magged.

Naturally, they are junk. I have the office gal call and tell him. He gets very nasty with her on the phone. Calls me a liar and says some nasty stuff about her. I call him and explain that's how you get your *** beat. Say what you want to my face, but don't f€*k with the office gals.

Anyway, he calms down and says he'll come down and take a look. So I drag his junk out and show him. He says "those ain't my heads". I say "well the who the fark do they belong to"? He says " you've got my good heads upstairs and you are trying to fark me out of my good cores". By now, I just want to choke this punk. Rather than that, I just grabbed him by his pants and the back of the next and perp walked his sorry *** out the door. Then I threw his junk **** out in the parking lot and told him to blow.

Then I went up and wrote of his invoice and told the office gals if he came back to call 911 and let them deal with him.

I'm too old (39 years if jpar asks) to deal with people like that. It really comes down to this guy not respecting you, your work and your knowledge. My best guess is he has some bubble bummer buddies who said they could have had it apart in no time.

Give it back, take the lumps and next time implement the same policy I started after the Ford guy. ALL disassemble, clean and mag work is paid for up front before I start on it. If it's a time and materials thing like you did, I estimate high (way high) and they either pay up front or bounce. If it takes less than what I thought I give a refund. If I wasn't smart enough to charge enough I eat that.

Sad it has to be like this but it is what it is.

Just my .02 worth of experience.
 
Be very careful about taking on side work while at your job, from that job's customer.

Even if you are 100% in the right, the customer can ***** to your employer, and rather than risk bad word of mouth involving their company, they will likely fire you instead.

I've seen it happen more than once.

I'd also be careful about doing more than a couple hours work on any job that looks like it's going to be close to $100 or over, and possibly not be worth repair.

I've been burned by that at least twice, once by a church even!
 
I have been in that very situation. It sucks! It's definitely something you need to wash your hands of. It's also a damned if you do , damned if you don't situation. Talk with him and make DAMN sure he understands the EXACT condition of the parts he's about to haul out of your life forever. Good luck, sir. You will need it.
 
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