Opinions please

Discussion in 'Electrical and Ignition' started by glennstar67, Nov 25, 2018.

  1. glennstar67

    glennstar67 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    17
    Likes Received:
    0
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2010
    Location:
    Loveland CO.
    Local Time:
    11:43 PM
    I have a 74 Duster. It has electronic ignition. It started running rough, almost like it was running on 7 cyl or something. Eventually it wouldn't even start anymore. Would just backfire through the carb and then finally it just quit. No power at all. No headlights, domelight, nothing when you turn the key. I figured it was the ign module box.. When I took the old one off there was a hole in it. I'm figuring problem solved. I install a new one. All power comes back. I turn the key, I get one click and all power is gone again. Could it be the starter is bad and drawing too many amps? I've replaced the starter relay as well. I would appreciate any advice. Thank you all in advance.
     
  2. cosgig

    cosgig MoBro Inc. FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,667
    Likes Received:
    2991
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2008
    Location:
    Pinckney, Michigan
    View My Photos
    Local Time:
    12:43 AM
    Connections connections connections! Clean all those connections, especially the grounds!
     
    • Agree Agree x 6
    • Like Like x 1
    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      38,083
      Likes Received:
      5678
      Joined:
      Oct 14, 2010
      Location:
      Idaho
      View My Photos
      Local Time:
      10:43 PM
      Don't guess learn how to troubleshoot. You can download a 73 shop manual for free from MyMopar. That manual and several others over there came from the efforts of guys right here

      Also "somewhere" is a poor quality wiring section for 74.

      Free service manuals

      You need "at the least" a multimeter which you can buy at any auto parts store, hardware store, Lowe's or HD or even Horrid Freight

      Start by examining the condition of the ignition system. Pull the cap and rotor and examine for dirt, moisture, foreign materials, "tracking" around the inside of the contacts, and damage and "punch through" of the rotor. Examing the reluctor and pickup for damage, heavy rust and debri

      Next get/ rig yourself a spark tester. I use a Lisle as it is adustable, less than 10 bucks

      lisle 50850 spark tester - Google Search

      WHEN TESTING THE SPARK it is IMPORTANT to do THREE things minimum

      1....Do not test by jumpering the starter relay to crank the engine. This changes the power path to the ignition system and leads you astray

      2...Do not use the existing coil wire, as it might be a resistance wire and could be defective. Put your spark tester connected to the coil tower to the engine block

      3.....Take your multimeter and connect to the coil + and watch it when you crank the engine USING THE key. You should show AT LEAST 10.5 V or more as it is cranking or more

      The system should produce nice blue snappy sparks at least 3/8" and more typically 1/2" long

      It is much more likely that the coil is going "somewhat bad" than the ignition module.
       
      Last edited: Nov 25, 2018
    • glennstar67

      glennstar67 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      17
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Sep 18, 2010
      Location:
      Loveland CO.
      Local Time:
      11:43 PM
      Have checked all of them. Made sure fusible link was ok as well
       
    • glennstar67

      glennstar67 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      17
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Sep 18, 2010
      Location:
      Loveland CO.
      Local Time:
      11:43 PM
      Actually used a multimeter on it. Everything was good, replaced cap, rotor, and coil as well
       
    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      38,083
      Likes Received:
      5678
      Joined:
      Oct 14, 2010
      Location:
      Idaho
      View My Photos
      Local Time:
      10:43 PM
      I found the 74 wiring scan in my computer. I don't remember where or if it ever got put on line. Send me a pm and if you can receive a somewhat less than 10mb file I will send it I scanned this, it is poor but I think readable
       
    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      38,083
      Likes Received:
      5678
      Joined:
      Oct 14, 2010
      Location:
      Idaho
      View My Photos
      Local Time:
      10:43 PM
      So is the spark good an "hot?"
       
    • glennstar67

      glennstar67 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      17
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Sep 18, 2010
      Location:
      Loveland CO.
      Local Time:
      11:43 PM
      Everything I put the mutimeter on read 1.0
       
    • glennstar67

      glennstar67 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      17
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Sep 18, 2010
      Location:
      Loveland CO.
      Local Time:
      11:43 PM
      But there is no spark. No power at all
       
    • 67Dart273

      67Dart273 Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      38,083
      Likes Received:
      5678
      Joined:
      Oct 14, 2010
      Location:
      Idaho
      View My Photos
      Local Time:
      10:43 PM
      "Everything" is not a word that computes. You have to be specific. I cannot tell what you are doing

      1...Make sure the meter works. Check the battery voltage.
      2...Is there anything supplied by the ignition switch that does not appear to work? That would be a clue
      3....Do you have a 2 or 4 wire ballast resistor? If you have a 4 wire, there should be one end with both terminals jumpered together. That comes from the ignition switch in "run". Hook your meter to that, put the key in the "run" position and see what you have

      4....Double check the above by checking the blue wire feeding the alternator field. With the key in "run" it should be very close to "same as battery."

      5...It is IMPORTANT to understand that the circuit CHANGES between "run" and "start" positions of the key. The test in (4) only works in 'run'. The 'run' voltage GOES DEAD when you twist the key to "start"

      Hook the meter to coil positive, and twist the key to "start." You should have at least 10--10.5V or more
       
    • glennstar67

      glennstar67 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      17
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Sep 18, 2010
      Location:
      Loveland CO.
      Local Time:
      11:43 PM
      Very good suggestions. I will try all of these tomorrow. Thank you very much for all of your help this evening. I really appreciate it
       
    • MOPAROFFICIAL

      MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      2,664
      Likes Received:
      1651
      Joined:
      Jun 1, 2016
      Location:
      breakwater
      Local Time:
      10:43 PM
      Disconnect the ballast and see if you have power
       
    • glennstar67

      glennstar67 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      17
      Likes Received:
      0
      Joined:
      Sep 18, 2010
      Location:
      Loveland CO.
      Local Time:
      11:43 PM
      Thank you for responding. There is nothing. Completely dead
       
    • MOPAROFFICIAL

      MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      2,664
      Likes Received:
      1651
      Joined:
      Jun 1, 2016
      Location:
      breakwater
      Local Time:
      10:43 PM
      Okay, well if the box is good,coil is good, ballast is good and the magnetic pickup works and its sparking plugs and cranking till battery goes dead...you may have lost a timing chain gear.
       
      Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
    • dirty white boy

      dirty white boy 47 yr old Juvenal delinquent

      Messages:
      963
      Likes Received:
      413
      Joined:
      Dec 15, 2012
      Location:
      stoneville n.c.
      Local Time:
      12:43 AM
      id check starter relay be sure its grounding good! had the same issue on my D150 other day!! if no power on the start and run wires with key switch on id bet its the electric switch in the steering column the key switch works!!
       
    • Kent mosby

      Kent mosby FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      154
      Likes Received:
      64
      Joined:
      Aug 24, 2018
      Location:
      Idaho
      Local Time:
      10:43 PM
      Are you saying that the distributor is not rotating at all? I am just following this thread to learn.
       
    • Bad Sport

      Bad Sport HALF A BUBBLE OFF Staff Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      33,401
      Likes Received:
      11637
      Joined:
      Jun 12, 2010
      Location:
      The Wolverine
      Local Time:
      1:43 AM
      OP, this ^^^^^ is where I would start. Check and clean all power and ground connections.
       
    • inertia

      inertia Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      3,008
      Likes Received:
      365
      Joined:
      Feb 4, 2011
      Location:
      Victoria B.C. Canada
      View My Photos
      Local Time:
      10:43 PM
      Charge the battery, or replace with one known good.
      Clean the battery terminals and cable connections, particular " + " one.
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • MOPAROFFICIAL

        MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        2,664
        Likes Received:
        1651
        Joined:
        Jun 1, 2016
        Location:
        breakwater
        Local Time:
        10:43 PM
        Oh no... it can still rotate and Spark, see it can even rotate somewhat less than engine speed at cranking because in such a scenario the chain driven by the crank just slipped and re settled on the cam gear setting the cam timing out enough not to run.

        A lot of times they only finally slip in 2 ways "most of the time"... and that's under hard acceleration and more under deceleration, inertia takes over at a point when the chain and gear is just too loose and worn.

        Hope that sheds some light.
         
      • Kent mosby

        Kent mosby FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        154
        Likes Received:
        64
        Joined:
        Aug 24, 2018
        Location:
        Idaho
        Local Time:
        10:43 PM
        But he says there is no spark at all. (Post #9) I understand if a gear slipped he would spark but not at the right time. Without a spark at all, either there is no signal to send a spark or there is a broken component to generate the spark, be it coil, wire or Dist. If the shaft of the dizzy is broken or the drive for it (timing gear) then no signal to generate a spark would be sent, thus no spark. To test that the dizzy is turning at all take the cap off and crank it and watch it spin. Unlikely, but an easy check.
         
      • AJ/FormS

        AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

        Messages:
        14,685
        Likes Received:
        3920
        Joined:
        Jan 19, 2014
        Location:
        South-Central Manitoba,Canada, 900ftelevation
        View My Photos
        Local Time:
        12:43 AM
        So I'm a little confused;
        We went from rough running engine to no ELECTRICAL POWER did we?
        As in does not even crank over?

        If everything reads 1.0 on your meter, then either;
        it's on the wrong scale,or
        on the wrong setting,or
        the leads are in the wrong holes,or
        you are using it wrong,or
        the battery juice never made it to the circuit you are testing, or
        it's just not working at all, else it would read something different on every circuit.
         
        Last edited: Nov 26, 2018
      • MOPAROFFICIAL

        MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        2,664
        Likes Received:
        1651
        Joined:
        Jun 1, 2016
        Location:
        breakwater
        Local Time:
        10:43 PM

        My post was a general "if these things work, then it's.."
        I know how it works.
         
      • 70aarcuda

        70aarcuda Master Hoader of SBM FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        13,822
        Likes Received:
        1919
        Joined:
        Jan 16, 2005
        Location:
        las vegas
        View My Photos
        Local Time:
        10:43 PM
        check the bulkhead wiring ...had same problem with 73 Duster....the 3 plugs on the firewall....they will corrode ....wiggle the plug everything worked....wiggle again and everything is dead..
         
      • dartley

        dartley Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        459
        Likes Received:
        13
        Joined:
        Jun 21, 2006
        Location:
        NY
        View My Photos
        Local Time:
        1:43 AM
        If you had no headlights or dome light that has nothing to do with your ignition or ignition system. There is something wrong with your battery or wiring. If you try to jump start the car and you get the same result then your wiring is faulty.
         
      • Dodge73Dart

        Dodge73Dart Well-Known Member

        Messages:
        108
        Likes Received:
        33
        Joined:
        Oct 13, 2008
        Location:
        Western North Carolina
        View My Photos
        Local Time:
        1:43 AM
        Is your amp meter working?
        Check the connections on it. Common problem.