Ordered my race engine oil last night....

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. Krooser

    Krooser Reform School Graduate

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    I've used a bunch of different brands of oil over the years in my race engines...Amalie, Valvoline, Amsoil Schaefer etc. Never an issue with any of them.

    Home - Cen-Pe-Co Lubricants

    This will be the first time I'm running methanol in MY engine so I needed a dino oil (or semi synthetic).


    I went back to an old standby from the 80's. I ordered two four gallon cases of CenPeCo 30W.

    I used this stuff in my otr trucks with good results and ran it in my Ford dirt track motors, too.

    I decided to go back to a single grade oil because if the methanol use and not having the oil loaded down with additives that make it a multi grade.

    So 30w it is... $151.00 for two four gallon cases of the stuff. Good price and the local dealer seems like a good guy.
     
    Last edited: Feb 28, 2020
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    • nm9stheham

      nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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      The part about wanting a dino oil is not computing for me....???
       
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      • Moparpuller

        Moparpuller Member

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        we rum cenpeco 10w30 in the pulling trucks here. At least 8500 rpm all the way down the track and no problems what so ever
         
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        • yellow rose

          yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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          If you use a true synthetic and alcohol you'll hate yourself. The two don't go together.

          You can use the "synthetic" the "supreme" court says is a synthetic, but the only place on the planet it's a synthetic is in the US.
           
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          • nm9stheham

            nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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            All new to me..... what happens? And does this apply to the Mobil1 types (super refined petroleum) or the full synthesized oils? I really can't find the answer online so far.
             
          • MOPAROFFICIAL

            MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Wonder if the old Schaeffer's micon moly would have worked fine.
             
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            • yellow rose

              yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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              I think it would. Haven't looked into the Schaeffers since about 2000 but IIRC that oil would work with alcohol
               
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              • yellow rose

                yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                There are 5 base oils. Group I, I can't remember what it is, but I doubt any oil uses it today.

                Group II is a refined mineral oil.
                Group III is where the issues start. Everywhere in the world Group III base stocks are considered straight mineral oil base stocks. IIRC it was Castrol and Mobil that went at it in court. I think Castrol was pushing to get Group III reclassified as a synthetic and Mobil called BS on it. The "supreme" court decided that Group III base oils are synthetic. But they are not, nor do they behave like a synthetic.

                Group IV base oils are polyalphaolefin (PAO's) and are synthetic base oils and are derived largely from methanol synthesis.

                Group V base oils are essentially polyolester base oils and IIRC these are also synthesized from methanol or Methanol is used in the process.

                Soooooo...what happens when you use Group IV or V base oils and try to use alcohol as a fuel, any alcohol that gets past the rings will actually behave as a solvent and it WILL start taking entire oil package apart.

                I've seen it first hand. Oil pressure will go berserk and fluctuate. If you data log oil pressure you'd get an eyeful.

                Then when you drain the oil, you will see the the oil coming apart. The polymer that is used to make the oil multi grade will seperate from the base oil. It looks like stringy liquid plastic. And that gets on the hot valve springs and other parts and makes a mess.

                That is the short answer as to why you should never use Group IV or V base oils, or a combination of the two (really good oils use a blend of Group IV and V base oils to taylor the oil for whatever you need...that's why quality oils are 20 bucks or more a quart) with methanol.
                 
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                • pittsburghracer

                  pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Brad Penn 10-30 user with alcohol here. Most of the issues with contaminated oil are the fault of the person using it. I see some guys that shouldn’t be using alcohol or race gas out there.
                   
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                  • yellow rose

                    yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                    I believe that is a Group III base oil. So it's alcohol compatible.
                     
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                    • Wyrmrider

                      Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                      what for break in oil?
                      are planning on pre heat?
                       
                    • nm9stheham

                      nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                      OK, thanks very much YR. So it is the "manufactured from other chemicals", group IV's and V',s that have the issue. Good to know. And makes some sense, as IV's and V's are quite different animals than petroleum.

                      BTW, Mobil1 is a group III from what I have learned..... a highly refined petroleum oil, refined for very consistent molecule size which gives superior behavior. Exxon started in the synthetic business with true manufactured synthetics IIRC, and AFAIK, Exxon/Mobil has continued with both product types under different lines. IDK what the other synthetic sellers do, but I see Royal Purple and Amsoil advertising methanol/alcohol compatible oils, which I would now assume are the group III's, based on this discussion.

                      And FWIW..... the court case was over whether synthetic blends (a mix of highly refined petroleum oil, like Mobil 1, and regularly refined petroleum oil) could be labeled 'synthetic'. Mobil was arguing that it had to be 100% super refined petroleum (like their product) to be called 'synthetic'. The court ruled in favor of the defendant, that the blends could be called 'synthetic'. Just to add to our confusion! At least the synthetic blends seem to be labeled as such, so you can know what they are.
                       
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                      • QuickDart360

                        QuickDart360 Well-Known Member

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                        Has the brad penn oil worked good with flat tappet cams? I got a case of 12 some time ago. Will use it once I break in cam with lucas 30 wt break in oil. Not fired up yet but oh so close! Cam is 292 mopar purple cam and new crane springs 1.5" wire or something to that effect.
                         
                      • greymouser7

                        greymouser7 Vagrant Vagabond “Veni Vidi Vici” FABO Gold Member

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                        YR, as I understand it, the government was petitioned by lobbyists of the oil industry and have redefined synthetic oil to more of a blend. It is not the pure synthetic that you older gentlemen initially experienced in the beginning of it's development.
                        So with that being said, does the synthetic oil of today meet your 'true synthetic' description currently?
                         
                      • pittsburghracer

                        pittsburghracer FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                        I have a .650 lift solid lifter cam in my 422 and I beat on it for the last four years. I use Brad Penn 10-30, I do throw a bottle of zinc in it probably once a year, and I went with EDM lifters for the first time. Ran a best of 9.42 (5.98) and 6.0’s last year so all appears to be well. I will be taking it apart in a month or so for rebuild.
                         
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                        • yellow rose

                          yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                          Only if it uses Group IV, V or a combination of those is it really a synthetic.
                           
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                          • Wyrmrider

                            Wyrmrider FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                            what yr said
                            fk castrol blend scam oil
                             
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                            • j par

                              j par Well-hung Member

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                              Grade Penn 15-40 since new.(5 years drag racing plus) Same brand 30w at break in..
                              Solid lifters.. 600+ lift. Now a little less but everything's fine..
                               
                              Last edited: Feb 27, 2020
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                              • fishmens67

                                fishmens67 Well-Known Member

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                                The old man always used the green oil. I use VR1 from day one.
                                All though I did try some graphite oil in the late 70's, only once, I didn't like dumping black oil right out of the can. lol
                                 
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                                • yellow rose

                                  yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                                  LOL. There was a lawsuit about that crap too. Somewhere around here I have some documentation of that.

                                  DuPont refused to sell Teflon to whoever the blender was of that oil because DuPont knew that Teflon was bad. Very bad for what they wanted to do with it.

                                  DuPont lost. I don't remember if DuPont sold to them directly or made them buy through a third party but in the end, the Teflon was sold and used I engine oil.
                                   
                                • Krooser

                                  Krooser Reform School Graduate

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                                  Synthetic and methanol don't mix... you can get by with a syn/dino blend.
                                   
                                • Krooser

                                  Krooser Reform School Graduate

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                                  Geez... we're not THAT old. The Nazi's ran synthetic oils and fuels during WWII since the Allies bombed the crap out of their oil producing facilities!

                                  OK...I DO look that old...
                                   
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                                  • greymouser7

                                    greymouser7 Vagrant Vagabond “Veni Vidi Vici” FABO Gold Member

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                                    It was the biggest (or a big) rage in the late 80’s, early 90’s.

                                    Nazi’s had methanol injection, rocket powered aircraft, cruise missiles, jets

                                    They were hipsters of military mechanical innovation-ahead of everyone, besides other awful labels attached to them.
                                     
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                                    • Krooser

                                      Krooser Reform School Graduate

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                                      And, like the German cars of today, their machines were overly complex, difficult to repair and we're often parked waiting for parts or repairs. I saw a documentary about the Nazis war machine and one former Tiger tank driver stated only one in three Tigers were operational in his unit at any one time.
                                       
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                                      • Krooser

                                        Krooser Reform School Graduate

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                                        Going to use my stash of GM EOS....the good old stuff
                                         
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