out of commission, cant drive my dart anymore

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mopower440

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decided to get my dart out yesterday and wash it up and take it out driving being it was so nice out. Been sitting for 8 months or so in the garage. I took it down the road and had fun with it. I was turning around and heard a pop under the front end and i had never heard that before. I got it back home and raised the front end up and the the upper control arm bushings and the upper ball joints are absolutely SHOT! I almost pooped my pants when i saw how loose they were! I immediately thanked God for letting me still be here and for my car not being destroyed being i was going pretty fast in it and it sure could have come apart on me. Anyways, now i dont know what to do because i dont know anyone in the area that could do the front end rebuild. This may sound stupid being i built the engine and everything else myself, but i dont know much about front end stuff and dont have the presses or tools for ball joints and stuff, then theres the torsion bars..hearing horror stories about them hurting people really bad because they didnt know what they were doing.. I have a really nice kelsey-hayes disk brake set up sitting in the garage that i bought almost 20 years ago that ive never put on the car because i dont feel confident in doing the work.. So, i dont know what im going to do about getting this front end rebuilt.
 
You're losing sleep over nothing. Read the FSM and dig in. It's cake. The minion job of automotive world (excepting doing the alignment. A good alignment tech is the right hand man of Jesus and God and Allah.)

I'm serious, when you get done, you'll feel like a kid that just got his first haircut.

Just remember: You do NOT need a ball joint press. If you do, you didn't read the FSM.
 
I bought the ball joint tool sockets off of ebay, came with the large and small ball joint fitting, like 30 bucks. I disassembled myself, did all but the bushings for upper/lower control arms. I took them to the GM garage and they pressed them in. I still have to get an alignment, though.

It's not all that bad once you get started. Plenty of info, like torque specs all over google.
 
Really?.. I really do want to get this back on the road..with disk brakes too being its a big block and still has the nasty 10" drums.. A long time ago i bought a very nice totally rebuilt kelsey hayes disk setup that came from a 1970 dart. New rotors and pads and all..ive just been scared to do the job along with a front end rebuild.. I dont remember a few things about this but something about using a different ball joint to use the disks and something about an adapter to do that so i dont have to change control arms or something..? I got to get this all straight in my head before i start..
 
mopower440 said:
Really?.. I really do want to get this back on the road..with disk brakes too being its a big block and still has the nasty 10" drums.. A long time ago i bought a very nice totally rebuilt kelsey hayes disk setup that came from a 1970 dart. New rotors and pads and all..ive just been scared to do the job along with a front end rebuild.. I dont remember a few things about this but something about using a different ball joint to use the disks and something about an adapter to do that so i dont have to change control arms or something..? I got to get this all straight in my head before i start..
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There has to be someone around that could help. Any Mopar dealers close? A old retired mechanic that knows his way around a torsion bar? You can do it. We can help.
 
I just did my front end for the first time by myself. New torsion bars, rotors (K-H disc), pads, outer tie rod ends, and all new bushings. It was a job, but it was a fun job that will have you yelling curse words at your car!! You'll need a 2.5 lb sledge.

Remove brakes, outer tie rods, upper ball joints, strut rods, lower ball joint, spindle (I have Kelsey Hayes), lower control arm, torsion bars, upper control arm. I removed and replaced upper and lower control arm bushings on one side myself using a small press I have, then took the other side to a shop. To have upper control arm bushings, lower control arm bushings and both hubs removed and studs pressed on the new hubs/rotors, the guy charged me $47.00. I would have paid twice that with a smile.

Then you put it all back together. Download a field service manual at my Mopar.com, and search through the threads here. The first side I put back together I learned the strut has to go on the lower control arm and then insert the other end of strut in k frame as you are installing lower control arm. Took me a minute, but I got it.

I set the toe-in as close as I could, then drove slowly to the alignment shop. I've driven over 100 miles now and absolutely love the feel. I went with the PST kit and their 1.03 torsion bars.

Like TMM said, you can do it. We're here to help!
 
Yes, you can do it! Ball joints are screw-in (buy or borrow the socket). Unload the torsion bars to begin disassembly. No vise grips on the torsion bars. Disassemble, clean it up, a local shop or a friend can press in the new bushings. Do ball joints, upper and lower bushings, check tie rod ends. Do everything, use quality parts and you will never have to do this again, just enjoy.
 
The kelsey hayes disk setup uses the same upper control arm and small ball joint that you already have with your 10" drums.
 
You can do it. I also had never done any front end work before. I removed my entire k frame to switch to the newer 73-76 version and put all new disc brakes, torsion bars, replaced every suspension part, rebuilt my steering coupler, and replaced my steering box all with the help of people here and a manual. I am just of average mechanical ability and was a little afraid of suspension work. All came out ok. Read all the threads about suspension work and get comfortable with the processes in your mind and get to work. Your project will be easier than mine and straightforward. You will need a ball joint socket, a press, a torsion bar removal tool, and read about how to remove lower control arm bushing shells. More than one way to do some of this stuff. You really can do this.
 
Although the lower ball joints look the same, IIRC the lower ball joints used with the KH disc use the next bolt size up from the standard bolts to secure the drum brake ball joint to the spindle?
 
65 Dartman said:
Although the lower ball joints look the same, IIRC the lower ball joints used with the KH disc use the next bolt size up from the standard bolts to secure the drum brake ball joint to the spindle?
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I think its this that im thinking of? The K-H setup i have already has a new lower ball joint connected to the knuckle..so what do i have to do to use it with my current drum a-arms?
 
It’s not brain surgery but it is hard work. Make sure the car is supported on some very study jack stands as you will be prying and hammering a lot.
Oreilly rents most of the tools. I usually heat the bushings to get rubber out on the old ones then sawzall and chisel the metal part till I can collapse it and pull it out. Put the new bushings in the freezer and heat the A arm some to put the new ones in. The heating and cooling helps them slide together easier. I don’t have a press so I used the ball joint press and some sockets.
It can turn into a money pit, as while you are doing it you will likely notice that the tie rod ends and the idler are are loose too....
There are no doubt a lot of better ways of doing this, but when you are a stubborn cheapskate, you learn how to improvise....
 
mopower440 said:
I think its this that im thinking of? The K-H setup i have already has a new lower ball joint connected to the knuckle..so what do i have to do to use it with my current drum a-arms?
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In a nutshell, If your KH knuckle already has the ball joint attached, remove the drum brake knuckle from each ball joint and substitute the KH knuckle. As others have said, now is the time to do the UCA bushings and ball joint and LCA bushing
 
As many others have said, this is not a difficult job from the perspective of "Oh my god,I don't think I can do this". Really it is a simple task, and definitely worth learning. Lower ball joints are different for the disc brake setup, use a larger diameter stud than drums, otherwise all upper ball joints are the same as is the upper control arm. You will need to change the brake master cylinder and proportioning valve as well as they are different. Easy to do, everyone here will advise if you need help. Worst part is that it does take some muscle to unscrew the hardware, especially the upper ball joints. You've built an engine, this is way simpler, and you will be very happy with the results.
 
Yep. If you can build an engine, you can rebuild your front end. It's actually an easier job in that cleanliness, precision, and attention-to-detail aren't anywhere near as critical as they are when assembling an engine.

You don't need a press, just a big C-clamp, its a $100 dollar tool. And you can align it yourself with a little thought, a good eye, and one of those $15 angle finder thingys woodworkers use to set up their table saws. Oh, and a tape measure, can't forget that!
 
All you are doing is replacing parts. It's not to difficult and doesn't really require any special tools or skills.What is really important is to take all the tension off the torsion bars first so when you break the ball joints free it doesn't slam down and hurt you. I actually used a pipe wrench to remove and install the uppers the first time I did it It's that basic.
 
I too sy you an do it with proper tools. You might be like me and getting old and woreout. If so, find an old mechanic that works out in the sticks or a small town, they are still out there. Just look for a guy that knows what a carb is and a torsion bar!!
Like said, a lot of tools an be borrowed from O Reilly. Get a can of rust penetrant, a BIG hammer, a cheaper pipe, and a manual that tells the steps. And enjoy the process. It is good exercise!!!! And like said, support it all properly!
 
I guess im going to do it! The torsion bar tension is what im worried about. I got to figure out how to remove the tension from them and i will be ok then.
 
Once you have the front end secured with Jack stands, just back off the torsion bar adjustment bolts on the lower control arms until they are loose. I placed my Jack stands on the frame behind the front tires to give me room to work.
 
torsion-bar-adjustment.jpg
 
As to the T-bar adjusters;
Prior to backing them off, use lots of penetrating lube, and I measure the ride height at some convenient place that is repeatable.I count the turns as I back them off until the tension is released. Then I continue to some easy-to-remember whole number.
After you get them loose, you may wish to take the bolt out and clean the threads, then slather it with anti-seize. This is why I measure the ride height before starting the job.

Whatever you do, do not scar the bar with plier type tools, the marks they leave can start stress-risers that lead to bar failures.
 
mopower440 said:
I guess im going to do it! The torsion bar tension is what im worried about. I got to figure out how to remove the tension from them and i will be ok then.
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IMHO the 2 biggest dis-assembly/assembly tricks:

1. Removing the tension is easy as said. Driving the t-bar back out is the harder part and requires a particular tool or some improvisation, as you have to hammer them backwards and out while not being able to hit the front of the t-bar. The T-bars typically are left and right, and have a clocking to observe. So mark how they come out.

2. When installing the LCA's, you snug the stud nuts but do not torque. Have the car at final ride height before you finally torque the stud nuts, to prevent tearing the LCA bushing rubber.

There are other techniques and tools, and if you are new to this, then they are good to learn. Pickle forks or toe-rod end separators, and a 3 lb machinist's hammer, make life a lot easier. Air tools are good too but not as necessary.
 
66fyssh said:
View attachment 1715308732
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ok, so to take the tension from the torsion bars is as simple as just putting a wrench on those bolts and turning them counterclockwise? They dont have any lock nuts on them or anything? I will spray them with penetrating oil for sure, but is there any chance they will brake off when i start turning them making the torsion bar unload all at once? Also, as far as removing the torsion bars, do i have to do this? can i just slip the lower control arm off them or do they have to be removed from the car? if so, do i just need regular old circlip removal pliers? THEN, what happens, you have to beat them backwords to get them out, towards the back of the car or?
 
65 Dartman said:
In a nutshell, If your KH knuckle already has the ball joint attached, remove the drum brake knuckle from each ball joint and substitute the KH knuckle. As others have said, now is the time to do the UCA bushings and ball joint and LCA bushing
Click to expand...

Dartman, a long time ago when i was thinking about doing this, i read somewhere that all you have to do is drill out 2 mounting holes to the next size or something but i do not remember how this went. Like i said, the KH setup i bought already has new lower ball joints with them, already bolted to the knuckle and all. They were sent to me ready to bolt between the upper and lower arms..in the guy i got them from rebuilt them all, then decided he wanted bigger brakes. He unbolted them from the upper ball joint and lower ball joint and sent the assembly to me.
 
DRUM brake ball joints attach to the spindle with 1/2" bolts.
DISC brake ball joints attach to the spindle with 9/16" bolts.
A DRUM brake ball joint can be drilled out to 9/16, and then be used on a disc brake set up.
Easy, peasy.
 
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