"Painless" Wiring question on a /6 car

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Professor Fate said:
Re-read post #2.
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I see it. Key inserted is off, key turned back is ACC, key turned forward is "run"? and key all the way forward is "crank" yes?

Meaning that the pink wire should be hot in "run" and orange in "Crank"? This is using their wording and matching with yours

Which I believe means I should switch the orange and pink wire because the pink should be ignition "hot"
 
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Dana67Dart said:
There are 3 terminals associated with the starting and running of our cars.

  1. IGN 1 = Run = power to the ballast resister (and perhaps other non ignition accessories)
  2. IGN 2 = Start = power to bypass the ballast resister during cranking only, IGN 1 has no power while the key is in start position
  3. RUN = Crank = power to the yellow wire on the starter relay. The power is separate from IGN 2.
Click to expand...
Okay this makes sense.
 
SRT_DSTRHOLC said:
I see it. Key inserted is off, key turned back is ACC, key turned forward is "run"? and key all the way forward is "crank" yes?

Meaning that the pink wire should be hot in "run" and orange in "Crank"? This is using their wording and matching with yours

Which I believe means I should switch the orange and pink wire because the pink should be ignition "hot"
Click to expand...
No, no, no.
IGN1 and IGN2 are both hot, just at different times.
IGN1 is only hot in "run", it goes dead in "start/crank".
IGN2 is only hot in "start/crank", it goes dead in "run".
Two different circuits, two different functions. There is no single full-time ignition hot wire.
Which means the pink wire (if you wired as you described immediately below) is IGN2/start, and is ONLY hot in "start".
Orange is IGN1/run, and is ONLY hot in "run".
SRT_DSTRHOLC said:
Factory Wiring for Ignition:' ------------------------ Painless Wiring:

Bat: Red ------------------------------------------- Red
Ign 1: DK Blue --------------------------------------------- Orange
Ign 2: Brown ----------------------------------------------- Pink
ST: Yellow -------------------------------------------------Purple
Acc: Blue --------------------------------------------------Brown
Click to expand...

Professor Fate said:
IGN2 is hot in "crank", and goes dead in "run".
Conversely, IGN1 is dead in "start", and goes live in "run".
Click to expand...
Orange (IGN1) feeds through the ballast resistor to the coil.
Pink (IGN2) bypasses the ballast and feeds directly to the coil.
 
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Professor Fate said:
No, no, no.
IGN1 and IGN2 are both hot, just at different times.
IGN1 is only hot in "run", it goes dead in "start/crank".
IGN2 is only hot in "start/crank", it goes dead in "run".
Two different circuits, two different functions. There is no single full-time ignition hot wire.
Which means the pink wire (if you wired as you described immediately below) is IGN2/start, and is ONLY hot in "start".
Orange is IGN1/run, and is ONLY hot in "run".



Orange (IGN1) feeds through the ballast resistor to the coil.
Pink (IGN2) bypasses the ballast and feeds directly to the coil.
Click to expand...
It looks like there is going to be some re-wiring.

According to the factory diagram, there are no wires directly from the ignition to the coil or ballast. It looks like the coil gets its power from the alternator regulator.

It seems that the person who originally wired this wired the pink from the switch directly to the coil instead of sending it to the ammeter and the parking brake switch.

I am going to have to write this all out on paper. ugh
 
SRT_DSTRHOLC said:
It seems that the person who originally wired this wired the pink from the switch directly to the coil instead of sending it to the ammeter and the parking brake switch.
Click to expand...
you might be interpreting some to and forms backwards
 
Dana67Dart said:
you might be interpreting some to and forms backwards
Click to expand...
Possible. I will look at the paper diagram I have and the website as well as the painless, but the way some of the wiring is done, doesn't follow the paper factory diagram I have.

If someone can confirm as well this would be helpful.
 
This is about as simplified as I can make it.
1762826429603.png

The factory D.Blue wire (Painless orange) may also feed other circuits such as the charging system (voltage regulator/alternator), A/C, electric choke assist., etc. Consult the FSM.
 
Professor Fate said:
This is about as simplified as I can make it.
View attachment 1716477088
The factory D.Blue wire (Painless orange) may also feed other circuits such as the charging system (voltage regulator/alternator), A/C, electric choke assist., etc. Consult the FSM.
Click to expand...
That helps and the painless to stock harness is what I have. I understand now, I was misreading the connectors going through the firewall.
 
Professor Fate said:
This is about as simplified as I can make it.
View attachment 1716477088
The factory D.Blue wire (Painless orange) may also feed other circuits such as the charging system (voltage regulator/alternator), A/C, electric choke assist., etc. Consult the FSM.
Click to expand...
Okay..

I am back after reviewing the current setup in the car, the painless instructions and the factory diagram. This post is to assist with anyone thinking about the "painless" route. I recommend AAW.

As the professor has stated I have somewhat confirmed, but because the "painless" kit instructions are all over the place I felt I needed to update everyone.

Mopar Factory Wiring:

IGN 1: DK Blue goes to the 2nd post on the ballast and the IGN terminal on the Alternator voltage regulator.
IGN 2: Brown goes to the 1st post on the ballast and then to the coil with a different color wire.
ALT: Wire from field on ALT Reg. goes to Field on Alt.

Painless Wiring Instructions:
IGN 1: Orange from fuse block goes to IGN switch ONLY.
IGN 2: Pink #931 wire (more than 1 pink wire in the system) provides power to 30A fuse (gets power during cranking), but there is no pink wire connected to the 30A fuse currently or in the instructions.

NOW: the #920 pink wire that runs directly from the block goes directly to the ballast on one post and then from the other post to the coil and should be hot in on and start position.

Please see the diagrams from the instruction manual in the follow up post. The fuse in the block for the coil has no power at all with the key in the on IGN 1 position.

Another thing is, they have instructions for wiring a pre 70 and post 70 alternator, but it seems that I have a post 70 alternator with the pre 70 voltage regulator (which was shown earlier). I AM WONDERING IF THE WIRING TO THIS IS POSSIBLY PART OF THE ISSUE
 
According to the factory wiring and part of the wiring for the alternator, the voltage regulator should be wired to the alt on both terminals, not just one.

Thoughts? I know the professor has stated to use the orange wire to one side of the ballast, which would be essentially a jump wire to the pink, but I have confirmed that the pink on IGN 2 and the coil are different wires, as well as the coil fuse pink wires, which are the ones running to the coil are not getting power with key on.

Thoughts?

1.jpg


IMG_7819.jpg


IMG_7821.jpg


IMG_7822.jpg
 
Please see the below link for the instructions they have provided.

Pg. 102

ORANGE: 12-gauge wire, printed [IGNITION SWITCH] #933 SWITCHED (IGN) POWERTO FUSE BLOCK; this wire provides the switched power source to the fuse block.This wire powers all the switched power circuits to the harness except for the COIL,RADIO, TURN SIGNAL, and A/C-HEAT fuses. This wire only has power when theignition switch is in the ON/RUN position.

PINK: 14-gauge wire, printed [IGNITION SWITCH] #931 IGN POWER TO "COIL" FUSE;this wire provides power from the ignition switch to the 30-amp COIL fuse on the fuseblock. This wire has power when the ignition switch is in the ON/RUN position as wellas the START position.
 
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The biggest issue you're having is you keep referring to the Painless instructions for wiring it up. THROW THEM OUT. Use the FSM (and ONLY the FSM- NOT a Chilton's, Haynes, Motor manual, or aftermarket E-Z read diagram. The FSM.) to correctly route your wires. The only thing you need to use from the painless instructions is the color codes, since you're stuck with their non-factory color coding. Ignore what they say about routing; it appears they have never set eyes on a Mopar in their life.
Regarding the alternator, it appears that you do have a later dual-field alternator. How you wire it will be dependent upon what style voltage regulator you have- the early mechanical style regulator (which your car originally came with) or the later electronic regulator. It can be used with either, but the wiring differs.
Mechanical ('69 and earlier)-
1762895917328.png

Electronic ('70 and later)-
1762895989351.png
or
1762896019321.png
finish can vary.
 
Professor Fate said:
The biggest issue you're having is you keep referring to the Painless instructions for wiring it up. THROW THEM OUT. Use the FSM (and ONLY the FSM- NOT a Chilton's, Haynes, Motor manual, or aftermarket E-Z read diagram. The FSM.) to correctly route your wires. The only thing you need to use from the painless instructions is the color codes, since you're stuck with their non-factory color coding. Ignore what they say about routing; it appears they have never set eyes on a Mopar in their life.
Regarding the alternator, it appears that you do have a later dual-field alternator. How you wire it will be dependent upon what style voltage regulator you have- the early mechanical style regulator (which your car originally came with) or the later electronic regulator. It can be used with either, but the wiring differs.
Mechanical ('69 and earlier)-
View attachment 1716477298
Electronic ('70 and later)-
View attachment 1716477299orView attachment 1716477300finish can vary.
Click to expand...
I wasn't referring to it for re-wiring, just wanted to explain where the issues were.

It does seem that I have the 69 and earlier regulator with the square back alt.

I will begin rerouting wiring after we figure out this situation with the alt. I will follow the factory wiring which means I need to correctly get the wires from the alt to the regulator to the bypass as well.
 
SRT_DSTRHOLC said:
I wasn't referring to it for re-wiring, just wanted to explain where the issues were.

It does seem that I have the 69 and earlier regulator with the square back alt.

I will begin rerouting wiring after we figure out this situation with the alt. I will follow the factory wiring which means I need to correctly get the wires from the alt to the regulator to the bypass as well.
Click to expand...
Okay, if you're going to stay with the early regulator, then all you have to do on the alternator is ground one field terminal (doesn't matter which one), and the other field (spade) terminal and big ring terminal get hooked up normally.
The only thing to watch out for is the field terminals- some of the later dual field alternators that are sold as replacements for the earlier single field units may already be internally grounded (although they usually remove one spade connector when they do that, but who knows anymore). So to be safe, check continuity from each connector to the case. If one is grounded, connect to the other. If neither is grounded, ground one and connect to the other. If both are grounded, the alternator is defective. Not unusual nowadays.
 
This whole "painless" debacle reminds me of the Disney movie Highschool Musical




If you are working on a GM, use GM wiring harnesses. If your working on a Chrysler, USE A CHRYSLER wiring harness!
 

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