Pilot bearing

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moparmike98

moparmike98

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I have been going through the process of replacing the clutch and ran into issues with the pilot bearing. It is a mopar 360/380hp magnum crate motor. I used a puller and it pulled this part out. This looks like the inner portion of the bearing. Does the thicker part still in there come out? How does it come out? I got the new bearing that brewers carries

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That appears to be the entire bearing. How does it compare to the new one. You also don't need a puller. An old trick for blind side bearing removal is grease. Pack the hole in the bearing with grease. Slide in a solid shaft of something right at the inner size of the bearing and give her a smack. It will hydraulic right out. Easy peasy.
 
I went and rented the puller because the grease method wouldn't work. I've used it on my scout before. It it much smaller than the new one. The new one is about the size of the fat part still in there
 
moparmike98 said:
I went and rented the puller because the grease method wouldn't work. I've used it on my scout before. It it much smaller than the new one. The new one is about the size of the fat part still in there
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Just buy the bushing. That’s a bad place for a needle bearing.
 
What does you input shat mic where that bearing was running?
 
I don't have a micrometer. I've found that the bearing I removed has a larger outside diameter than the stock bushing. It's loose in the back of the crank(if that's not a part of the bearing). So I am confused. The one I removed is a perfect overlay of the inside portion of the new bearing

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That is a factory bushing /bearing set up ,make sure the new bearing fits your input shat ,if so just remove the remaining bushing in the crank and install the new one you have there
 
mopar doctor said:
That is a factory bushing /bearing set up ,make sure the new bearing fits your input shat ,if so just remove the remaining bushing in the crank and install the new one you have there
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It does fit my shaft. You think that's a part of the old bearing too? I'll attack it tomorrow with the puller and the grease method again
 
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Well, if the bore is too large for the bushing, don't use the bushing. I has to be press fit.
Just use the new converter hub bore bearing. It will just sit back further on the input shaft when assembled.
Some drill and tap (1/4-20 maybe??) the bearing surround before installing so it can be removed easier in the future with a couple small bolts.
 
Yes ,and I do as Daves69 said I drill and tap the old bushing while in the car and use two small bolts to pull it out .You could probably use a steering wheel puller or something like that ,or a slide hammer with a blind bearing puller
 
Maybe tap it all the way through and just use long threaded bolts?
 
Ok well that took longer than expected. But I ended up buying the inner part of the bearing (the needle bearing part) and installing it into the old piece still in there. Now reading up on adjusting this thing correctly. Right now my t/o bearing is riding the fingers and the pedal still doesn't come up all the way. TTI zbar installed before and OC spring still in place (b&b plate). Thanks for the help guys.
 
The bearing won't come off the fingers until you get past over center and the OC spring pulls the peal up.
 
Daves69 said:
The bearing won't come off the fingers until you get past over center and the OC spring pulls the peal up.
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So which way would I adjust the fork? I tried both directions. Backing off the until the bearing clears makes the pedal go to the floor or not come all the way up. I tightened it and the pedal would come all the way back up but the bearing was resting on the fingers. I'm bamboozled. There are tons of threads but none really come to an answer. There's no real slop anywhere
 
Flat face of the disc toward the engine?
Is every thing tight? Nothing moving or flexing in the pedal linkage besides the clearance in the pedal rod holes? Bell crank not sliding in and out on the the ball studs?

FWIW, MP recommends a finger height of 1.700" when the disc is installed.

How I see it, the plate springs should be able to force the fingers back enough to get the pedal past center where the OC spring pulls it up. The fork spring pulls the fork forward and keeps the pedal linkage tight.
Where is the release bearing when you pull the fork forward by hand? Do you see a lot of clearance to the fingers?

I think ideally you're looking for this.....
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Ok so when I adjust the bearing just off the fingers the return spring has no tension in it to hold the fork back. *I fixed this with an extra twist in the spring upon install, has tension now and holds off fingers*. The spring is hooked up in the spot on the bellhousing here but before was on the zbar stud. The only slop appears to be the pedal rod to zbar. I believe that to just be the slot. And the flat side (metallic/ceramic side) is towards the flywheel. When I pull the fork forward there is minimal clearance as set by the linkage. The picture shows where the pedal sticks. It's kind of in the middle point of where the pedal slams down or up (with no linkage). Picture is linkage all hooked up obviously. Also turns out I'm missing the clip that holds the adjustment rod on the zbar.

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This picture "looks" like the adjuster rod is not pulled all the way forward. Is there something stopping it?

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Don't forget slanty pedals have a different ratio than V8 pedals, and the down-rod on the V8 pedal gets retracted IIRC, about 5/8" further into the cab.
The picture and Dave's comment mesh with this.

The spring down there is just an anti-rattle spring, not designed to push the pedal back, but rather to pull the TO bearing off the fingers..
 
AJ/FormS said:
Don't forget slanty pedals have a different ratio than V8 pedals, and the down-rod on the V8 pedal gets retracted IIRC, about 5/8" further into the cab.
The picture and Dave's comment mesh with this.

The spring down there is just an anti-rattle spring, not designed to push the pedal back, but rather to pull the TO bearing off the fingers..
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The fork is against the thick washer of the adjustment rod. It may look different in the pic because the jam nut isn't against the first one. Also its missing the clip that holds it on the zbar stud. The car was born with a 318 so I would think the linkage would be for a v8. Is there a way to verify it? If the t/o bearing is off the fingers is it ok to drive/put back together and just accept the pedal not coming all the way up? Also any tips on getting this trans back in? I get it about half an inch, if that, from all the way in
 
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NO!
Do not drive this way.If the clutch hangs up on a 6000rpm shift, with your gas pedal on the floor, you could be seeing the tach needle swinging by 8000 on it's way back down; ask me how I know,lol. Most engines with HFT cams will not survive this.

#1, it appears to me that your crank was never drilled for a pilot bushing,but is in fact a crank that came out of an automatic equipped car. This crank requires a different pilot bushing than the M/T cranks. The usual fix is to use a pilot bearing that installs in the T/C pilot cavity, like the far left one in post #7.
These auto-cranks are also not drilled deep enough to receive the input shaft. The cure for that is to cut off the trans input short enough to fit, and to chamfer the edge to make an easy lead-in, to the new bearing.

#2, as for the pedal it is supposed to park slightly higher than the brake pedal. You say it sticks in the middle somewhere, but firstly;I don't trust your set-up. I don't think you can mock this up without the TO bearing being on the retainer.
Secondly, find out what the pedal or the associated linkage, might be rubbing on that prevents the pedal from returning properly. Disconnect the TO fork and adjuster rod, find the problem and fix it. Keep in mind that the usual culprit is the Z-bar rubbing on the header. Do what you gotta do.Bend twist, whatever, but get it off the header and make sure it stays off when the engine torques over. I installed a Schumacher torque-contraption. The Z-bar has to be immobilized in the transverse direction, and make sure the downrod is properly oriented; it can fit 4 ways. After you have that properly cycling, and the pilot thing worked out, Put some hi-temp grease in the cavity in the TO bearing carrier, and install all that onto the retainer. Then slide that pigA833 in there, and secure it. Then install the TO fork into the TO bearing clips and simultaneously onto the fulcrum bracket.
The fork must more or less center in the window in the vertical direction, and almost as far to the front as is possible with around a half inch clearance to the bell. If yours is not there, then you may have the wrong fulcrum bracket, or the wrong clutch finger height. Get that sorted, then install the adjuster rod and set the freeplay. If you have a rubber washer on that adjuster, I highly recommend to get rid of it. Sooner or later it will give you trouble. Brewers sells a nice metal swivel to go there. The anti-rattle spring hooks into a hole between the BH and the back of the engine, and sorta pulls all the adjuster parts together so they don't rattle. Simultaneously the TO bearing is slightly pulled off the Clutch Fingers; if you managed to install the fork correctly in the clips..
Now try it.

Ok I think I covered it, hit refresh one more time
Good luck.
 
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So my car has the 360/380hp magnum crate motor in it. The trans and pilot bearing(the needle bearing in the converter area) have already been together in the past so the input shaft shouldn't be a problem. The pedal sticks about an inch down from the top. When you pull the pedal up it snaps back up. There is no change in the linkage from the zbar down in this inch. All movement is in the rod through the firewall and connection at zbar. Interesting so I was trying to get all of this correct without the trans in, just the bellhousing. I had the fork and t/o bearing assembled and in there. I'll try removing it all and installing the bearing on the trans before install. How can the down rod be oriented 4 ways and what is the correct one? Also by looking at brewers the fork spring I have looks to be the longer one which makes sense.
 
In my previous post I assumed the trans was already installed.

1) Riddle me this then; why will the trans not go all the way home? Why is it a half inch short of home? Measure the length of the input, tip to case. Then measure BH face to bottom of hole in crank. Compare. Also prefit the bearing to input nose.
2) The downrod is correct when it centers in the firewall cutout laterally, and does not rub top or bottom in it's travel. The cutouts in the ends of the rod must must fit the pins without binding, throughout their travel, and the special clips installed that keeps the rod on the pins.The Z-bar must rotate smoothly on the nylon bushings, not move laterally, and not bind on the downrod. It must anchor on the BH and frame, such that in plan-view it is at ~90* to the centerline if the vehicle, and ~ parallel to the ground. The pedal must park on it's stopper in the under-dash mechanism. Check all these things before the adjuster rod is installed in the fork.
If the levers on the Z-bar have been tweaked by someone, the pins may not be travelling in the proper arc, and jamming in the downrod. If I had to guess, I might think the top pin, or the pedal bushing is binding up under the dash.
moparmike98 said:
When you pull the pedal up it snaps back up. There is no change in the linkage from the zbar down in this inch. All movement is in the rod through the firewall and connection at zbar.
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The snap-back, at the very end (last inch) is correct. But it should be pulling the downrod with it, and rotating the Z-bar . For some reason, it appears that your Z-bar is binding, or the downrod is rubbing in the firewall cutout, or binding on the pivot-pins.Or the pedal is binding in it's pivot bushing, or the retaining clip at the pedal pivot is missing.
With the adjuster rod removed from the Z-bar, it should become apparent which it is.
But if that half is Ok, it would be normal for the Z-bar, and downrod, to clank back and forth,a little on the stationary pedal; I mean there is a lot of "slop in the Downrod windows. After the trans is installed, and the adjuster is assembled into the fork, and the freeplay is adjusted; all that slop will disappear; this is why the trans has to be installed; so you can set the freeplay.
It could be, that everything is normal, but because if the lack of freeplay adjustment, you are perceiving a problem that does not exist. A previous poster mentioned this, go back to post #16,and reread it in it's entirety.
Daves69 said:
How I see it, the plate springs should be able to force the fingers back enough to get the pedal past center where the OC spring pulls it up. The fork spring pulls the fork forward and keeps the pedal linkage tight.
Where is the release bearing when you pull the fork forward by hand? Do you see a lot of clearance to the fingers?
Click to expand...
 
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Ok so i got my parts(correct spring, plastic washers, and new clips) from brewers in and it tightened up my linkage. However, i found my problem elsewhere. First, the downrod was snagging on the boot but the issue is with the t/o bearing. Specifically the spring clips that hold it on the fork. The lower clip is stretched/bent. That's rather disappointing because means trans needs to come back out right? PS, those clips are a PITA. *Actually the more I think about it I'm not sure that could be it because the fork goes all the way back anyway. It must have to do with the linkage still.*
 
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