Piston I D

Discussion in 'Small Block Mopar Engine' started by RAT ROD AL, Aug 9, 2018.

  1. RAT ROD AL

    RAT ROD AL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    20180803_153253.jpg 20180803_153217.jpg I have a set of Kieth Black pistons from a build a few years ago that I would like to sell but don't remember exactly what they are. Can anyone I D these from the pics. I also don't see a bore size on top like most but up inside I see 060. I do believe they are 060 but not sure. On one side by the pin they have KB 190 and on the other side there is SL 03. Thanks for any info.
     
  2. brian6pac

    brian6pac Well-Known Member

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  3. Wyrmrider

    Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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    looks like a small dome on the sparkplug side but also looks like there is a quench dome on the closed chamber side let me know I can't tell from pic
    there is also a 191
    if these have a quench dome and a small dome on the spark plug size they are one of several discontinued models- pity - they really worked
    but you had to machine the dome to fit or adjust gasket thickness- the usual way
    you can get the specs on the KB website- just click on the picture of the piston
    mike the pistons for bore size
    is the dome on the intake side higher than the one on the exhaust?
     
  4. oldskool979

    oldskool979 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I would be interested in these if they are indeed .060 over. Are you including the rods? Floating or pressed pins? PM me if you decide to go forward. Building A 360LA for the 67 Dart. I'm in 30041. GA
    Thx-
    Steve
     
  5. RAT ROD AL

    RAT ROD AL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Yes I could include the rods and the pin is pressed in the rod. Keep a watch on this post or save me or what ever .
     
  6. oldskool979

    oldskool979 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I will keep watching.
     
  7. RAT ROD AL

    RAT ROD AL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    OK here's what I checked. The dome is flat across the top. The bottom of the skirt mics at 4.080 and just under the oil ring it mics at 4.050 which sounds like .040 over bore to a chart I found. But the confusing thing is the 060 up in side the piston that has 060 in it. couldn't find much on bore size on K B site. I will look a little more. but here are some more pics 20180809_211745.jpg 20180809_212603.jpg 20180809_212651.jpg 20180809_212738.jpg 20180809_213055.jpg 20180809_213350.jpg
     
  8. RAT ROD AL

    RAT ROD AL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Have you had your block bored yet?
     
  9. rumblefish360

    rumblefish360 so close yet so far away

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    Measure at the top of the piston
     
  10. nm9stheham

    nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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    Depending on engine brand and model, the diameter is set somewhere from 1" above the bottom of the skirt to across the pin height and will taper as you go up on the skirt.

    Your readings look like 4.058 near the bottom and 4.055 up higher. So I can't see this being 4.080 but 4.060", or .060" over for a 360 piston which has a stock bore of 4.000". So that hangs together with the 060 mark under the dome, and your recollection.

    FWIW, if I were building and had a stock bore engine, I would go up the minimum possible, so as to leave as much meat in the cylinder walls for future rebuilds. .060" overbore for a 360 is a substantial chunk out of the walls. The extra cubes going .060" over versus .020" or .030" is pretty trivial, unless you are racing down to the nth degree and need every smidgen.
     
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    • RAT ROD AL

      RAT ROD AL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      OK , I dug up my old engine builders phone number and confirmed what these pistons are,with the 060 up inside on the ceiling of the piston and the 050+ on the skirts he tells me they are indeed 060 over. Shoulda just done that in the first place! Thanks guys for the responses. These will be up for sale soon after I give OLDSHOOL1979 first shot at them.
       
    • oldskool979

      oldskool979 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      PM sent
       
    • Wyrmrider

      Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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      and those are not quench dome pistons
      I'd dummy up all four corners and check clearances
      also you are going to have lefts and rights so make sure the valve notches are in the right place for the heads
      and the chamfers on the bearings match the crank if it has radius and the non chamfered side of the rods are next to each other and squirters - if the rods have them are pointed where they should be
       
    • oldskool979

      oldskool979 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Thx for the info. I will check the details. These are going in a 360 LA that I'm building as a street cruiser on pump gas. The engine was built by a "pro shop" 10 years ago but never installed. PO rotated the assembly periodically and had it in a heated space. I know its +.060, rod and mains have been turned .020. Since I'm replacing the damper, flywheel, and now the rods and pistons, I plan having the assembly balanced. Using 596 heads with small valves and pretty mild cam, but will ck the clearance. The existing badger flattops calced at 8.4CR These should put me near 9.25 CR but still OK for pump gas. I'll recalc CR after I check these parts. Can always adjust some with head gasket thickness.
       
    • nm9stheham

      nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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      Post #8 asks the key question. If these used pistons really are 4.058" OD near the bottom of the skirt, and the Badgers for which the block was bored were .001-.002" larger, then these KB's will be too loose. KB's like this are hypereutectics and are set at a tight clearance, not the larger clearance like a forged piston would use. Most machine shops never bore 'til they have the pistons in-hand, just in case they find a variation in piston diameter.

      Not trying to 'queer the deal' but hopefully you guys will work something out 'just in case' these end up a tad too small for your block's bores.
       
    • Wyrmrider

      Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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      What heads
      CC your heads and get an accurate CR B 4 ordering cam
      and get your rocker geometry correct B$ ordering pushrods IDK what you are using for rockers IF HFT ot Solid and stock or Iron rockers you are OK- if roller tips then you have some spacing to do

      good point NM the machine shop should be put on notice
      OP check with KB and Badger and see exactly where they should be measured

      If you have Iron heads 9.5 should be ok with moderate cam 9.0 with short cam and 10:1 with a big cam
      although there was a recent post of lots of compression with a short 25 cam- I have no idea how he did it
      also depends on weight, gearing, converter, and usage
      a truck with a camper and a boat on the back or motorhome pulling a long grade has to use lower CR than a Duster 4 speed with lower gears
       
      Last edited: Aug 11, 2018