Planning first engine build, need help

Slant 6 Engines

  1. Valiantknight

    Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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    Engine throws black smoke when i hit the gas, little white smoke on startup but idles ok. Been trying to time it up right but figured id cut my losses and just try to freshen up the engine. the Previous owner tossed allot of cash and time into it so heres the build:
    1970 Plymouth Valiant 225ci Slant 6 engine professionally rebuilt 10:1 compression. hypereutectic piston rings. ported cylinder head. Long Ram Aussie manifold. QFT 450 cfm 4bbl carb. Dutra dual exhaust.4 core radiator with upgraded water pump. Msd 6AL ignition NGK spark plugs, and a mild cam. Now i was dumb and didnt get cam specs when i bought the car so i have no idea where to set the valve lash. What should i do? I want to get her done and running good in about 3 months and im not looking to spend more than $800-$1500 unless im getting some decent power but im just looking for a solid freeway cuiser nothing major.

    EDIT: trimmed some fat off the post as to not confuse people.
     
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2021
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    • j par

      j par Well-hung Member

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      The title says you're planning your first engine build but you end up with you're spending no more than $800? I'm lost
      ..
       
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      • Valiantknight

        Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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        Planning a first rebuild i guess is a better title. Never done this before, is an $800 budget too low? I can raise it but how much should it be to freshen up an old slant? Dont want cost to exceed value of the car or else id just swap something beefier in, so i guess 1500 is my hard budget, for 2000 i can buy a 318 and transmission or another car
         
        Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
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        • j par

          j par Well-hung Member

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          Last 318 I bought I paid $50 for and was given the transmission for free.... It needed $120 rebuild but that was easier than falling out of bed...
          So you haven't started it and drove it in months and months. It could need some good gas it could need a valve adjustment it could need a carburetor adjustment I couldn't need a lot of simple things. You said the previous owner threw a lot of cash at it and it has high compression. Have you tried doing a compression check? where's the oil look like? When's the last time you changed it and the filter? When's the last time you changed the air filter? When's the last time you gave it any kind of serious tune-up like new plugs wires rotor and cap?...
          I've never seen one of these six cylinders die but I guess anything is possible. One that was rebuilt and a lot of cash thrown at it to quote you... I think you just need to look into it a little bit more ask some questions and get some more feedback... And for goodness sakes post some pictures of the car.. let's see this 10 to 1 compression slant 6 and how well you take care of it... It should be a real shiner with all this 6al business...
           
        • RustyRatRod

          RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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          You're gonna end of with 800-1500 in machine work alone for a fresh rebuild. You're livin in a fantasy world thinkin you can do the whole thing for that.

          What I would do is tune what you have first. You might save a lot of money. I would adjust the valves to .010 intake and .018 exhaust. It will run well there. Bump the initial timing to about 15* idling hot. Get a vacuum gauge on a manifold vacuum port.....there are two on the passenger's side front of the carburetor stickin out of the base plate...and see what the vacuum reading is. I bet you don't have enough initial timing. Classic mistake. You can learn a LOT by learning hot to tune one.
           
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          • Valiantknight

            Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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            I replaced cap and rotor before i parked it, it has fresh oil in it, fresh spark plugs, streetfire plug wires and i drained an refilled the gas before i decided to start it up. Why do you sound so upset about a lack of pictures? it isnt a shiner its a slant 6, starts, runs, gets the job done. Its been parked for a year becuase ive been dealing with some medical issues not becuase i dont know how to keep up with it. Ive done a compression test. Im asking about the most cost efficient way to freshen up an engine regardless of its current condition. Ill post engine pics this week when i have time to go snag some.
             
          • j par

            j par Well-hung Member

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            I'm not upset about anything it's not my problem LOL...
            I'm sure glad your apartment needed paving it sounds like it cured your medical condition and just about one day LOL...
            I think you could probably drop it off in a machine shop and get the short block rebuilt for about $2,500...
            Then you'd still have to take the engine out give it to them then put all the oil pan oil pump water pump timing cover intake manifold exhaust and everything all back on and paint everything and put it all back in and then retune it break it in and everything else...
            Personally I'd fix what you got if it's just a 6 cylinder...
             
          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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            What's a streetfire plug? Streetfire is MSD's name brand. I see all kinda things but plugs with that name. What plugs do you have?
             
          • Valiantknight

            Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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            Msd Part no:32749. Super conductor wires. my bad i remembered the wrong name. I had to cut and fit them, engine ran fine and i had no issues with missfires after installation but i still have the original plug wires if you think thats the issue.
             
          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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            No I'm sire the wires are fine. They make good wires. What plugs are you using? Where is your initial timing set?
             
          • Valiantknight

            Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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            Lol i wish i were cured im waiting on biopsy results. Its been a rough year. I have no issue pulling the engine. I hadnt ever needed to get machine work done so thats what i was most curious about. I have a place where i can dissasseble an engine, whats it usually cost to just get some head work done? Figure it probably just needs a fresh set of valves, new guides or seals and the timing adjusted. I dont think it needs a cam or new rings but if i pulling it im sure i can handle getting the engine honed.
             
          • Valiantknight

            Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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            I had it set to TDC then advanced it bout 15 degrees out.
             
          • RustyRatRod

            RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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            I think you might be puttin the cart before the horse. Why not try and tune what you have? Or are you just wanting to spend a pile of money? If that's the case, then have at it!
             
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            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              That's about as vague an answer as anyone could ever give. What does that mean? Does that mean you HAVE it at 0 and it advances about 15 or that you had it at 0 and then bumped it to 15? Don't make this anymore difficult than it already is. Remember, YOU know everything. WE are on the other end of the internet.
               
            • Valiantknight

              Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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              Because ive been spedning lotsa time trying to get it dialed in but it just wont stop smoking, and its annoying my neighbors lol figured i could just take it apart fereshen it up and get back on the road. I have the money but im on a time limit so i came here for advice first
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              OK then, piss on tryin to tune it. Knock it out buddy!
               
            • Valiantknight

              Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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              Sorry. currently it idles at 15 degress advanced. At 0 it was giving me smoke so i advanced it. Now it only smokes when i give it gas.
               
            • RustyRatRod

              RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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              What color is the smoke? And to hell with the neighbors.
               
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              • Valiantknight

                Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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                Black smoke, and ill drink to that
                 
              • RustyRatRod

                RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                That's a fuel issue. It's running too rich (too much fuel). How does it idle? It could have a blown power valve. That carburetor is a nice one. I have one just like it on my dining room table. It has replaceable air bleeds. You can tailor that thing pretty much however you want to. It's a carburetor issue. Not an engine issue. You're fixin to spend a pile of money for nuthin.
                 
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                • Valiantknight

                  Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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                  I had rebuilt it prior to parking it, so i thought maybe i just didnt have a good seal on an intake valve. out side of the power valve what else could be suspect in the carb? Idles kinda choppy but smooths out at higher rpm
                   
                • RustyRatRod

                  RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                  Impossible to determine over the internet. I would START by getting a reading on the vacuum gauge warmed up at idle and go from there. If it's smoking pretty bad, I would highly suspect the power valve. One more time. HOW DOES IT IDLE? DO you have a video? Please take one if not and post it. A GOOD QUALITY video, not something that looks like a blind drunk shot it.
                   
                • Valiantknight

                  Valiantknight Well-Known Member

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                  For sure ill handle that this weekend.
                   
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                  • RustyRatRod

                    RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                    Also if you would, just to make CERTAIN, recheck the timing at idle. Be SURE it's sitting on 15 BTDC.
                     
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                    • flingdingo

                      flingdingo Well-Known Member

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                      Like RRR said, black smoke = too rich.

                      Blue smoke = burning oil, which points to bad rings or bad valve guides.

                      Listen to this man, he knows his shit. He might come off as a bit of an A-hole but he will steer you in the right direction.

                      At least until we get to the points vs electronics debate. ;)
                       
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