Puff of black smoke, no start..

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zig

zig

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Well my no start on the duster continues... I've posted a few times in the past few months. I tore the front of the engine down, confirmed the timing chain is correct. I correctly lined up the dist to TDC while the cover was off to make sure I was not 180 off. I put it all back together, tried starting again. This time I get lots of puffs of black smoke coming out of the carb. Some pops here and there, but no start...

Any ides where to look next? I didn't mess around to much, I adjusted the timing a little on the dist, but no luck.

A little background, freshly rebuild 340, assembled by me. First time putting and engine together, but read plenty of information and torqued everything to specs. The engine is fairly stock. I used KB hyper pistons, new rings, comp cam XE274 cam. I had heads redone with 2.02 valves. My goal was to make my 73 engine more like an early 340.

During my compression tests I was seeing 85-100 lbs. I know kind of low, I am hoping when the rings seat it will go up. From research it sounds like this is enough for combustion at least.

Any advice would be appreciated. I have been getting some help from a friend that knows more about cars then me. I am about ready to take it somewhere and pay someone to fix it...

Thanks for any help...
 
we need more information bro

getting spark out of the coil?
do you have fuel to the carb?
are you flooding the engine?
have you verified TDC with a piston stop?
correct firing order and rotation on the cap?
is the ignition box thoroughly grounded? what kind of ignition are you using?
are you getting spark at the plugs?
engine grounded?
ballast good?
 
Hope this helps... first car I've rebuilt... I've got my mopar buddy stumped. I am going to have him come over next week again to mess around...

getting spark out of the coil? - yes have spark
do you have fuel to the carb? - yes jets are pumping fuel
are you flooding the engine? - not sure, Plugs are wet though, maybe carb needs adjusting? It is freshly rebuild thermo
have you verified TDC with a piston stop? - no, but used a screw driver to check with the heads on.
correct firing order and rotation on the cap? i have triple checked and everythng looks good.
is the ignition box thoroughly grounded? what kind of ignition are you using? - using all stock, should be grounded correctly, same as before I tore it down and it was running.
are you getting spark at the plugs? yes verified each one.
engine grounded? yes strap on the back corner and to the battery in front, to chassis.
ballast good? - brand new from rock auto.
 
zig said:
Hope this helps... first car I've rebuilt... I've got my mopar buddy stumped. I am going to have him come over next week again to mess around...

getting spark out of the coil? - yes have spark
do you have fuel to the carb? - yes jets are pumping fuel
are you flooding the engine? - not sure, Plugs are wet though, maybe carb needs adjusting? It is freshly rebuild thermo
have you verified TDC with a piston stop? - no, but used a screw driver to check with the heads on.
correct firing order and rotation on the cap? i have triple checked and everythng looks good.
is the ignition box thoroughly grounded? what kind of ignition are you using? - using all stock, should be grounded correctly, same as before I tore it down and it was running.
are you getting spark at the plugs? yes verified each one.
engine grounded? yes strap on the back corner and to the battery in front, to chassis.
ballast good? - brand new from rock auto.
Click to expand...

if you have spark to the plugs and the firing order and rotation on the cap is correct, and you are positive the rotor is firing the number one cylinder at TDC, from there twist the distributor counterclockwise about 1/8 th turn. pull the plugs out and clean them/ dry them off, re-install. give the carb one squirt of fuel and try to start it. it sounds to me like it is flooding. if you have a known running carb you can toss on it , that would be even better. im sure youll get a few other responses that may help
 

zig said:
Well my no start on the duster continues... I've posted a few times in the past few months. I tore the front of the engine down, confirmed the timing chain is correct. I correctly lined up the dist to TDC while the cover was off to make sure I was not 180 off. I put it all back together, tried starting again. This time I get lots of puffs of black smoke coming out of the carb. Some pops here and there, but no start...
Click to expand...

Where were your marks on the cam and crank gear when you dropped the dizzy in on #1?
 
Might think about oiling those fresh cyclinders a little here and there.
Wet plugs and black smoke means you are washing those fresh rings and cylinders with fuel.
Last time someone here did that they seized the motor.
 
many times I've put the plug wires on the cap in the wrong rotation. stupid mistake but will get you spark but no start. you want a CLOCKWISE rotation for the small block mopar. If you got that right your probably 180 out on the distributor.
 
Since you "posted several times" you need to go look up those posts, and link them here so we can see what's been going on.

You say you are getting "puffs of black smoke out the carb????"

If so, this is a SURE sign that the timing is way way off, probably 180

You say "you lined the marks up with the cover off"

WHAT?? does this mean?

Are you saying that you installed the distributor with the cover off? IF YOU

1--lined up the timing marks

2--with the cam marks "together" IE top sprocket at 6 o'clock, crank at 12 o' clock

3--THE TIMING will NOT be correct for no1......!!!!! It will be instead no.6 ready to fire!!!!

Here:

(Oh hell I see this IS one of your other threads, one good reason to post the same problem to the same thread so continuity is created.)

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=210714&page=2

67Dart273 said:
"The thing" about timing traditional V8 engines. This does NOT apply to some V6s (even/odd fire) and some 4 bangers.

"The book" shows how to insert the intermediate shaft, that is the drive gear/ oil pump drive, and if done properly, everything comes out "OK"

THE REASON it is originally done that way is

so the assembly line folk can wrench, repeat

so the plug wires "lay" nice

so the tune up guys "see" what they expect.

The TRUTH is you can close your eyes and drop the drive gear in ANYPLACE, plug the distributor in "any" old way, and and then bring the timing marks up on no1 ready to fire, and plug the no1 wire in wherever the rotor points, and it will run just fine.

If the vacuum can is off interfering with something, you can simply turn it where you want, bring no1 up to fire, and plug the no1 wire into where the rotor is pointing.

HERE IS the steps to setting up an engine dist.

1---It is important to realize, that when the cam timing marks are set "by the book" that is cam at 6 o'clock, crank at 12 o' clock, this is NOT no1 ready to fire, but rather no6 ready to fire.

So you either have to plug in the dist. pointing to no6, or rotate the engine 1 turn

2---After the cam is timed, with the timing marks on TDC, the "book" shows how to insert the intermediate shaft. if yours is incorrect and you want to correct it, you can simply use a large screwdriver and "walk" the gear up out of the helix and move it whichever way it needs

The gear on a small block should have the slot pointing nearly straight inline with the crank, just a tad to the driver side pointing at the front most manifold bolt

A B/RB gear the slot should be essentially inline with the crank

3---With this in place, now bring up the no1 cylinder ready to fire NOT on TDC but rather WHERE you want initial timing to be. There are two ways to do that

A---If either valve cover is off, bring the timing marks up to where you want initial time, IE 10BTC or so for a bone stocker, 15-20 for a "cam" or maybe even a little more for a real hot cam
Look at either the no1 or no6 valves. Whichever set of valves is CLOSED indicates which cylinder is ready to fire. If no 6 are closed, you can either plug the dist. in with rotor pointing to rear (no6) or rotate the crank one turn, and plug the dist in for no1 (rotor pointing forward)

B---If the valve covers are on, pull the no1 plug, stick your finger in the hole, and bump the engine around. When you START to feel compression, watch the timing marks, and bring them up to initial time, IE 10-12 BTC

Now plug the dist. in, rotor pointing forward, and put the vacuum can approximately where it should be.

I always mark the dist. upper rim directly under the no1 tower so I don't have to argue with teh cap.

Rotate the dist RETARD (cw for small block, ccw for B/RB) to "get the slack" out of the drive, then slowly ease the housing back advanced until

the points open if you are using points

or until the reluctor tip is centered in the pickup coil core.

This procedure should get you close enough that the engine will start and run with no fuss. Then of course just take your timing light and adjust from there

An aside.

I'm a HUGE believer in checking actual TDC with a piston stop, which you can make or buy

cca-4795.jpg


Small block intermediate shaft below. The slot lines up with the front left intake manifold bolt. You can walk the gear up and around with a screwdriver

attachment.php


B, RB, 426 hemi:

attachment.php
Click to expand...


One other thing. You may mulitiple problems:

Maybe a wiring problem, IE poor bulkhead connector is causing poor / low ignition voltage/ poor spark

Maybe the fuel system has dirt/ etc/ other problems, and is allowing the needles/ seats to flood fuel

Try disconnecting and plugging the fuel supply to the carb, and see if it will fire on "what is in the carb."

Try running a jumper lead directly to the coil + connection to get a good hot spark. Do NOT leave this connected any longer than to test fire the engine, certainly not for "minutes at a time" while you fuss with other items.
 
I finally got the motor started. It just took lots of gas... It was real loud when it first started. It has only ran for a few minutes, since I can't keep it running. I'm sure the carb needs some adjusting and the timing needs to be set, but it won't start running long enough. It is very loud though.

It rattles like a diesel almost. At first I think it was the lifters. It did get a little quieter, but it is still very loud. Is this more than likely top end or bottom end? My buddy thinks I need to pull the motor and rebuild professionally.

I assembled everything myself and I am now second guessing what I did. I did not number the rods, so I don't know for certain they are the same as before. Would that cause a lot of problems?

We did crank on it quite a bit. Not sure if I killed the cam and lifters? Any sure way of knowing? Maybe pull the intake and check it out? Not sure how to tell they are bad...

I need to read up on adjusting the carb. It is a stock thermoquad that was rebuilt.

Any help is appreciated...
 
zig said:
I finally got the motor started. It just took lots of gas... It was real loud when it first started. It has only ran for a few minutes, since I can't keep it running. I'm sure the carb needs some adjusting and the timing needs to be set, but it won't start running long enough. It is very loud though.

It rattles like a diesel almost. At first I think it was the lifters. It did get a little quieter, but it is still very loud. Is this more than likely top end or bottom end? My buddy thinks I need to pull the motor and rebuild professionally.

I assembled everything myself and I am now second guessing what I did. I did not number the rods, so I don't know for certain they are the same as before. Would that cause a lot of problems?

We did crank on it quite a bit. Not sure if I killed the cam and lifters? Any sure way of knowing? Maybe pull the intake and check it out? Not sure how to tell they are bad...

I need to read up on adjusting the carb. It is a stock thermoquad that was rebuilt.

Any help is appreciated...
Click to expand...

So am I the only one trying figure out what to say about this?
 
check the oil for metal shavings if there are a bunch in it then something definitely was wiped out otherwise the rattling you heard could be that the timing is advanced too far . when it was running how was the oil pressure ? was it low or did it have good pressure ?
 
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