Pulley Diameters

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6pk2goDemon

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I've been chasing a running hot problem (210*) for quite a while on my 340 w/ aftermarket AC. The car has billet aluminum pulleys right now that are both 6 1/2" diameter.

I believe the crank pulley should be larger than the water pump pulley.

What should the pulley diameters be on a small block w/ AC ??
 
C, I am seein 7.250 for the crank but I cannot find anything concrete on the water pump pulley.
 
Mancini lists the repro water pump pulley at 6 7/8" diameter and the crank at 6 9/16" diameter....

If you want the water pump to spin faster, use a smaller diameter water pump pulley....
 
Mancini lists the repro water pump pulley at 6 7/8" diameter and the crank at 6 9/16" diameter....

Are those for AC equipped cars? Interesting that they list the WP pulley larger than the crank pulley?
 
Ok, I know this is a difficult problem/question & I'm having trouble trying to figure it out too :BangHead:

Does anyone know what is the typical difference in pulley diameter from the water pump to the crank?

Is 1" about right or ??

Someone must have a small block with AC...:)
 
Food for thought. R u sure thata the temp. R u going by a gauge in the car or one located somewhere else. Reason im saying is my 340 was running 210 also. I changed gauge and sending unit and then checked 180 all day long. Just saying double check 2 b sure
 
Thanks @lenky1

Yes, I have an autometer temp gauge under the dash. It climbs well above 210* when driving w/ the AC on. I really think my issue may be related to the pulley diameters...
 
C, I just checked my "decoy" with 318" ac and power steering. My crank is 7 1/4" and water pump is 5 7/8-6" hard to get accurate on WP,Joe
 
Joe, That's great info!! Thanks SO much...:thumbsup:

Could you tell me how many grooves are on each of the pulleys too please?
 
3 groove crank and 1 groove water pump that lines with outside crank and power steering.
 
I measured the small block non-AC pulleys I have and got 6 7/8" for the water pump and 7 1/4" for the crank pulley. That was a single groove for the water pump and a double groove for the crank pulley.

On my '71 GT with a 318, power steering and AC the water pump pulley was 6 5/8", crank pulley was still 7.25". That was also a single groove for the water pump, and a triple groove for the crank pulley. The AC was driven by a double including the alternator, and a single belt drove the power steering and water pump. Here's a picture of the set up as it was when I bought it. The radiator wasn't original (for an early A) and some knucklehead used one of those stupid flex hoses.

ce1f_3.jpg
 
On my '71 GT with a 318, power steering and AC the water pump pulley was 6 5/8", crank pulley was still 7.25". That was also a single groove for the water pump, and a triple groove for the crank pulley.

Exactly the info I've been looking for!! Thanks for taking the time to help :D
 
My 67 273. Crank is just over 6", wp pully is 6.5"
if your thermostat is missing or wide open it is possable that the coolant is moving too fast and not pulling enough heat out
 
I underdrive the waterpump.
My theory is that at high rpms the pump could cavitate or like Dana67dart said move the coolant too fast for it to disapate heat.
Just my unedumacated highpotheadthese though....
 
if your thermostat is missing or wide open it is possable that the coolant is moving too fast and not pulling enough heat out

T'stat is a 180* & checked in a pan of water before installed. Lower hose has spring & running a 17" Mopar clutch fan w/ a shroud. 3 core Mopar radiator.

Anything is possible though...it is a Demon LOL :)

I underdrive the waterpump.
My theory is that at high rpms the pump could cavitate or like Dana67dart said move the coolant too fast for it to disapate heat.
Just my unedumacated highpotheadthese though....

I like unedumacated guesses....seems like I'm good at those :BangHead:

So when you underdrive the WP, your WP pulley is larger than the crank pulley correct??

I hate this, but am determined to fix it!!!!
 
T'stat is a 180* & checked in a pan of water before installed. Lower hose has spring & running a 17" Mopar clutch fan w/ a shroud. 3 core Mopar radiator.

Anything is possible though...it is a Demon LOL :)



I like unedumacated guesses....seems like I'm good at those :BangHead:

So when you underdrive the WP, your WP pulley is larger than the crank pulley correct??

I hate this, but am determined to fix it!!!!
I upgraded my 340 setup with a Griffin 2 row, 1 1/4 cores radiator, Hi - flow 160 t-stat. Never gets above 180 with A/C on. Yes it has a factory 7 1/4 inch single 3 groove crank pulley and the smallest factory water pump pulley I could find.
Good Luck

Barracuda new 340 003.JPG
 
I upgraded my 340 setup with a Griffin 2 row, 1 1/4 cores radiator, Hi - flow 160 t-stat. Never gets above 180 with A/C on. Yes it has a factory 7 1/4 inch single 3 groove crank pulley and the smallest factory water pump pulley I could find.
Good Luck

I've looked at the Griffin's & they're VERY expensive. I want to exhaust other possibilities before forking over the $$ on a new radiator. I'm sure you understand...

Since my current pulleys are both the same diameter & I don't think that's correct, I figure it's good to put some effort into changing them.

Nice looking engine bay you have & thanks for your help! :thumbsup:
 
Again with the coolant circulating too fast to dissipate heat argument? Seems like all kinds of people think this. And for no good reason, because that's not what's happening.

Air is moving past the radiator at speed, whether being pulled by the fan or pushed through by the speed of the car. The velocity of the water in the radiator would have to be spectacular for it not to shed heat because it's being exposed to a large volume of moving air as it flows through the radiator. The water isn't just flowing through the radiator in stationary air, the air is moving too and that makes a BIG difference.

The next thing is that if the water really is circulating faster, it’s also making more passes through the radiator. Even if the heat lost on a single pass was less, the water would make more passes in a given amount of time. So, the heat lost could still be higher overall, it's not a slam dunk that the water going faster is worse. And that's even if you assume it's going fast enough that it's losing less heat, which is a big fat assumption.

And then there's just the thermodynamics of water. The hotter water gets, the more it wants to shed heat, and the harder it is to get it to take on more. So, if anything, the argument for water circulating too fast should be on the engine side. In the engine the water is moving, but the heat source is not. The faster the water goes through the engine, the less energy it will pick up, and the hotter the water gets the worse that will be. Meanwhile, on the radiator side, the hotter water wants to shed that energy even more. And the cooling source, the air, is moving. So really, if the argument is that the water is circulating too fast, then the reason shouldn't be because the radiator won't be able to dissipate enough heat. Instead, it should be that the engine won't be able to transfer heat to the water fast enough. (Which is why I run a high volume pump and NOT a high volume thermostat)

Just look at what the factory did on the AC cars.
water-pump-info-all-mopars-jpg.jpg


AC cars got larger fans, larger radiators, smaller water pump pulleys (higher rpms for the pump and fan), and standard water pumps. So then you say, "HA! the factory didn't use high volume pumps on AC cars! Must be the water velocity!"

Except the factory spun the standard water pump 35% to 45% faster than the non-AC cars with the high volume pumps. How much more water volume do the high volume pumps move? 20% to 30% based on the information I've seen. So, is a standard pump spinning 35 to 45% faster really pumping less water? I bet it's not.

The surface area and air flow are the two biggest drivers of the cooling capacity of the system. Which is why the factory used larger radiators, bigger fans, and then spun those bigger fans faster. Why the smaller pump? Probably as insurance against cavitation as the pump impeller was spun faster. Because at the higher pulley ratio the standard pump was likely already putting out more volume than the high volume pump was at the slower driven speed.

I've looked at the Griffin's & they're VERY expensive. I want to exhaust other possibilities before forking over the $$ on a new radiator. I'm sure you understand...

Since my current pulleys are both the same diameter & I don't think that's correct, I figure it's good to put some effort into changing them.

Nice looking engine bay you have & thanks for your help! :thumbsup:

Sure, your pulley ratio is 1:1, which is 30% less than what the factory did for an AC car. Which means your fan speed is 30% less, and your pump speed is 30% less than what the factory used. So it's very possible you aren't moving enough air OR water, especially if you're using a standard water pump.

I would look for a smaller water pump pulley. Or a larger crank pulley. You could also use a high volume water pump, because if you're using a standard pump with that 1:1 ratio you're not even moving the same amount of water as a factory non-ac car (same-ish ratio, but a HV pump). Although the HV pump wouldn't improve your fan speed like going to the smaller pulley would.
 
@6pk2goDemon You've had your AC installed for awhile, right? I remember reading your how to thread. Did this just start happening? Just curious as I also have a 340 and am gonna go with that kit.
 
Sure, your pulley ratio is 1:1, which is 30% less than what the factory did for an AC car. Which means your fan speed is 30% less, and your pump speed is 30% less than what the factory used. So it's very possible you aren't moving enough air OR water, especially if you're using a standard water pump.

I would look for a smaller water pump pulley. Or a larger crank pulley. You could also use a high volume water pump, because if you're using a standard pump with that 1:1 ratio you're not even moving the same amount of water as a factory non-ac car (same-ish ratio, but a HV pump). Although the HV pump wouldn't improve your fan speed like going to the smaller pulley would.

This is the add'l info I needed to help verify my suspicions of what's going on & why it's running hot. SO impressed with your in depth analysis :) Thank you much!

I'm looking for a larger crank pulley & a smaller water pump pulley. I have a friend coming over with a bucket of pulleys for testing. FABO friends are the BEST :D
 
@6pk2goDemon You've had your AC installed for awhile, right? I remember reading your how to thread. Did this just start happening? Just curious as I also have a 340 and am gonna go with that kit.

Yes, the AC has been installed for quite a few years & works awesome. It's still ICE cold :D

You have to remember that I live in the AZ desert...109* today. I don't drive it daily, but would enjoy it much more if I didn't have to constantly watch the temp gauge & worry.

I'm truly thinking the pulleys I have are the problem & trying to navigate that issue. Hoping this thread will help others as pulley diameter has to be included in the equation...
 
Yes, the AC has been installed for quite a few years & works awesome. It's still ICE cold :D

You have to remember that I live in the AZ desert...109* today. I don't drive it daily, but would enjoy it much more if I didn't have to constantly watch the temp gauge & worry.

I'm truly thinking the pulleys I have are the problem & trying to navigate that issue. Hoping this thread will help others as pulley diameter has to be included in the equation...

I just read blu's response. Makes sense. Awesome info for anyone with cooling issues.
 
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