R3W7 Assembly

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gregcon said:
The Series 5 is their high-end pushrod which is heat treated for added stiffness. Around $19 each.
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Not to be pedantic, but heat treating can't change the stiffness of steel. It can make it harder (helps with metal to metal wear and will increase the force needed to bend the metal permanently) but not stiffer.

Stiffness is inherent to most materials and is defined by Young's modulus.

Some types of metal treatment can increase the stiffness of the treated layer (like nitriding, case hardening, or other diffusion treatment methods), but the effect is not very large.

That said, a higher grade of heat treat is rarely a bad thing. Some materials can be made harder than woodpecker lips without becoming brittle. Properly treated 8620 is amazing stuff too, I use it in many of the parts I've designed due to the tremendous strength it can give while remaining amazingly tough (bend before cracking). There's also a million ways to treat it, some are very costly but the results are tough to obtain without resorting to other crazy materials like maraging steels, or tooling specific steels and the like.
 
No, your comment is a good one. I used 'stiffer' as a quick term but it's good to be accurate. Manton told me they send the pushrods out for heat treating after cutting them to length so that sort of lends credence to the idea that the process actually does something. Another nice feature is they etch the length on each pushrod...not critical but handy.
 
gregcon said:
No, your comment is a good one. I used 'stiffer' as a quick term but it's good to be accurate. Manton told me they send the pushrods out for heat treating after cutting them to length so that sort of lends credence to the idea that the process actually does something. Another nice feature is they etch the length on each pushrod...not critical but handy.
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It’s funny that you used two different lengths of pushrods. Most people don’t do it, but it should be done. People used to make fun of me for doing it...they said **** like it’s not a hemi or a BBC.

When you look at the angle and you don’t account for that in pushrod length you make a mistake.
 
13 months after buying them...I finally assembled the heads today. This is a significant milestone as it sure lets me throw out a lot of boxes!

Final specs are coil bind clearance of .070" and installed height of 1.92" (after shim/locator). With these tall valves, I could accommodate a lift of about .800 without too much trouble. The retainer-to-seal clearance ended up at .885".

For valve keeper retention during assembly, my choice is transmission assembly goo, and I used Royal Purple synthetic assembly lube on the valve stems.

I also have the rotating assembly back from balancing. I told them 'no grinding or drilling' on the rods and pistons and that worked out well thanks to the similarity of all those pieces. I didn't need any heavy metal, either, so no suffering there.

My two big obstacles left are getting the block clean and ..I have no oil pan, still. But those are surmountable.

Actually, the third obstacle is I don't have any headers and probably won't until I make some.

The fourth obstacle is I need several more thousand dollars to complete all this, and that need competes with my needs for more dirt bikes and pinball machines...

assembled heads.jpg


goo.jpg
 
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The latest is I ordered some fabricated Winchester valve covers....the ones shown are not exactly like mine will be, I am using different locations for the breather fittings.

After a lot of go-arounds and over $600, I have all the ARP fasteners needed to attach the heads and main studs. Not an easy task...the W7's do not use standard LA lengths and of course have an extra 8 fasteners per head.....I identified the studs needed in ARP's catalog but none actually exist on Earth.

I also ordered a Gerst front suspension setup. Pics shown is from their website. I'm not on the bandwagon for these aftermarket setups like a lot of guys...I think the stock suspension is a very good system. But, for this particular car, I'm going to try the Gerst system for three main reasons: 1) I haven't used one before 2) I plan to fab the headers and for once in my life want to avoid having to navigate the t-bars and 3) I want a rear sump oil pan that is no lower than stock but still has good capacity. By eliminating the drag link, I can do that.

Winchester.jpg
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gerst 2.jpg
 
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gregcon said:
The latest is I ordered some fabricated Winchester valve covers....the ones shown are not exactly like mine will be, I am using different locations for the breather fittings.

After a lot of go-arounds and over $600, I have all the ARP fasteners needed to attach the heads and main studs. Not an easy task...the W7's do not use standard LA lengths and of course have an extra 8 fasteners per head.....I identified the studs needed in ARP's catalog but none actually exist on Earth.

I also ordered a Gerst front suspension setup. Pics shown is from their website. I'm not on the bandwagon for these aftermarket setups like a lot of guys...I think the stock suspension is a very good system. But, for this particular car, I'm going to try the Gerst system for three main reasons: 1) I haven't used one before 2) I plan to fab the headers and for once in my life want to avoid having to navigate the t-bars and 3) I want a rear sump oil pan that is no lower than stock but still has good capacity. By eliminating the drag link, I can do that.

View attachment 1715688144 View attachment 1715688146
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The Gerst is a nice looking setup. I'm thinking about getting one for the Dart since it will be a big block stroker and it has a hacked up slant six k-member in it. BTW, awesome work! Interested to see the final product.
 
I changed the photo of the suspension because I realize the first one was not a Gerst. The photo shown now is.
 
One product that interest me, that I might use, is this Peterson remote oil filter mount. Aside from holding the filter, it has a built-in pump that allows you to prime the engine. That's especially interesting as most of my stuff tends to sit many days, or weeks, or months, between starts. Has anyone used one of these? I'm curious...it has to pull the oil through the non-rotating pump and I wonder how well that works. It's only rated for 20PSI, which is plenty, and of course it's not a high flow situation either. To use this, you'd just pop the hood and spin it with a cordless drill or even a speed wrench with a socket.

Peterson remote.jpg
 
Thanks, that helps.

I've used electric powered pumps to prime but they were bigger and heavier and needed wiring. This was on a Hemi where it was easy to tap into the external pump cover.
 
The latest is after a lot of begging...I finally received the gear drive, which I was shamed into using by Yellow Rose....

These have been off the shelves for many months. I made several calls to the good people at Milodon and was sent one of the first three that came off the production floor. I think they will once again be available. The guy at Milodon told me "I don't know what's up but we've sold more SB Mopar gear drives this year so far than all of last year."

Heavy...6-7lbs. If the engine runs out of gas, the inertia will keep the cam spinning for at least a mile!

gear drive 13600.jpg
 
gregcon said:
The latest is after a lot of begging...I finally received the gear drive, which I was shamed into using by Yellow Rose....

These have been off the shelves for many months. I made several calls to the good people at Milodon and was sent one of the first three that came off the production floor. I think they will once again be available. The guy at Milodon told me "I don't know what's up but we've sold more SB Mopar gear drives this year so far than all of last year."

Heavy...6-7lbs. If the engine runs out of gas, the inertia will keep the cam spinning for at least a mile!

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SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET. Once you go fixed idler gear drive you never go back!!!! I just glad Milodon is still making them.
 
For sure, the gizmo-ness of it is hard to resist, lol.
 
gregcon said:
One product that interest me, that I might use, is this Peterson remote oil filter mount. Aside from holding the filter, it has a built-in pump that allows you to prime the engine. That's especially interesting as most of my stuff tends to sit many days, or weeks, or months, between starts. Has anyone used one of these? I'm curious...it has to pull the oil through the non-rotating pump and I wonder how well that works. It's only rated for 20PSI, which is plenty, and of course it's not a high flow situation either. To use this, you'd just pop the hood and spin it with a cordless drill or even a speed wrench with a socket.

View attachment 1715689933
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I think I'd just use a accumulator.
 
I set up the gear drive this weekend. Milodon recommends using a strip of newspaper to establish the gear lash....I haven't touched a newspaper in years....but I found an old section of newspaper from 1992 stashed away!

There is a need to drill and tap one hole in the block. My ability to hold a drill square is excellent, within 30 degrees in any/all directions. Not good enough. So I made up a basic drill jig that bolts to the block and had a couple plugs. One has a dowel nose that tightly fit in the Milodon gear plate to locate the hole. The other has a hole that acts as a drill bit guide and ensures the bit is 90 degrees to the block face in all directions. Took about 20 times longer to make the jig than drill the hole...but in any case it's done.

It's interesting that this hole 'can' be drilled into an assembled engine, like if you were retrofitting the gear drive to running car. It would take some effort to keep shavings out of the engine, but it could be done. Except when the drill bit breaks though the back side, you'd lose some metal into the crankcase....I guess you just have to live with that unless you pulled the pan and cleaned it out. The holes needs to be 5/8" deep at a minimum to use the bolt they give you, and that is right at the thickness of the block, so you pretty much will break through. I guess you could substitute a shorter bolt and leave it a blind hole.

Gear Drive Milodon 13600.jpg


milodon jig 2.jpg


Milodon jig.jpg
 
gregcon said:
I set up the gear drive this weekend. Milodon recommends using a strip of newspaper to establish the gear lash....I haven't touched a newspaper in years....but I found an old section of newspaper from 1992 stashed away!

There is a need to drill and tap one hole in the block. My ability to hold a drill square is excellent, within 30 degrees in any/all directions. Not good enough. So I made up a basic drill jig that bolts to the block and had a couple plugs. One has a dowel nose that tightly fit in the Milodon gear plate to locate the hole. The other has a hole that acts as a drill bit guide and ensures the bit is 90 degrees to the block face in all directions. Took about 20 times longer to make the jig than drill the hole...but in any case it's done.

It's interesting that this hole 'can' be drilled into an assembled engine, like if you were retrofitting the gear drive to running car. It would take some effort to keep shavings out of the engine, but it could be done. Except when the drill bit breaks though the back side, you'd lose some metal into the crankcase....I guess you just have to live with that unless you pulled the pan and cleaned it out. The holes needs to be 5/8" deep at a minimum to use the bolt they give you, and that is right at the thickness of the block, so you pretty much will break through. I guess you could substitute a shorter bolt and leave it a blind hole.

View attachment 1715704049

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Nice work
I would sell that drill jig to Milodon or better yet trade it for trick parts.
 
gregcon said:
I set up the gear drive this weekend. Milodon recommends using a strip of newspaper to establish the gear lash....I haven't touched a newspaper in years....but I found an old section of newspaper from 1992 stashed away!

There is a need to drill and tap one hole in the block. My ability to hold a drill square is excellent, within 30 degrees in any/all directions. Not good enough. So I made up a basic drill jig that bolts to the block and had a couple plugs. One has a dowel nose that tightly fit in the Milodon gear plate to locate the hole. The other has a hole that acts as a drill bit guide and ensures the bit is 90 degrees to the block face in all directions. Took about 20 times longer to make the jig than drill the hole...but in any case it's done.

It's interesting that this hole 'can' be drilled into an assembled engine, like if you were retrofitting the gear drive to running car. It would take some effort to keep shavings out of the engine, but it could be done. Except when the drill bit breaks though the back side, you'd lose some metal into the crankcase....I guess you just have to live with that unless you pulled the pan and cleaned it out. The holes needs to be 5/8" deep at a minimum to use the bolt they give you, and that is right at the thickness of the block, so you pretty much will break through. I guess you could substitute a shorter bolt and leave it a blind hole.

View attachment 1715704049

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View attachment 1715704051
Click to expand...


I stopped using newsprint probably by 1989 or so. I use a dial indicator and set the gear lash at .003 and send it.

Still the BEST away to drive a cam. Gets me excited just looking at it. Need to go find the wife and give her the business.
 
I'm really not a drawing guy....but here are the coordinates and basic details. You need a mill (preferably with DRO) and a lathe to make this. You could substitute a smaller diameter threaded rod if needed. The purpose of the threaded 'inserts' is to allow you to install the jig with the dowel locator in place, then unthread it and install the drill guide without disturbing the jig itself.

The .390" holes are not critical...it's probably just as well to go as big as 7/16" to start with so you had enough movement.


Gear drive jig.png
 
Milodon's instruction sheet says if you go too tight on lash, the gear will run hot. They state .006"-.008" if you are checking it with a dial indicator after the fact. As always, real-world experience might be different.
 
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