Radiator and cooling options

Heating / Cooling / AC

  1. Frnknsteen

    Frnknsteen FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Wanted to check and see if I could get some suggestions on radiator and fan options. My Barracuda had an aftermarket radiator and cooling fan that just isn't cutting it. The main issue, I believe is that there is no shroud, so it isn't making full use of the radiator.

    The car is a '67 Barracuda with a 400, 4spd manual trans. The radiator that was installed is 24" wide cross-flow radiator with a 19" core and a 15 fan centered on the core. My issue is that there is absolutely no space to move the fan back and put a shroud in, as the fan motor would hit the water pump pulley.

    I talked to a contact at Cold Case radiators (member here) after seeing a lot of referrals to them. He said he agreed that a shroud would help, but the lack of room would be an issue. He also said the problem would be that dual 12" fans wouldn't work, and he didn't think dual 10" fans would move enough air.

    Wondering what others on here have done to fit a good fan and shroud with a big block in one of these A-bodies. I'm open to buying a different radiator that is thinner to allow more room. I am also open to going back to a mechanical fan and shroud, but I have not seen a short enough fan clutch to work with my radiator, so would I have to go to the right length spacer and a flex fan (no fan clutch)?

    Temps stay reasonably ok going down the road (somewhat!), but temps climb quickly if I have to stop, or get caught in slower traffic. It just isn't useable in temps higher than 80-85 degrees.

    I will attach some pictures for you to see what I have going on:

    Thanks!
     
  2. Frnknsteen

    Frnknsteen FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Here are some pictures:

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  3. famous bob

    famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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  4. furyus2

    furyus2 Well-Known Member

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    The setup you have won't work. There's too much area not covered by the fan. You need a shroud. The radiator looks too thick, and maybe too small. Hard to tell by the pictures. The thicker the radiator, the harder it is for cool air to travel through it. A Thinner, wider radiator will cool better by itself. Remember, Mopar installed these engines from the factory, so they will cool, if done properly. A 2 row aluminum, as big as you can fit, with a shroud, and a stainless steel fan from Summit, should fix the issues. Summit also sells universal shroud kits.Also, make sure you have a seal between the hood, and radiator support. That blocks the hot air from recirculating back. I don't recommend an electric fan, since you will need a way more powerful fan setup. I've heard of people using one from a Ford Contour. Then you will need to upgrade your wiring, alternator, and add relays, and thermal switches.
    Summit Racing® Flex Fans SUM-G4917
     
  5. Frnknsteen

    Frnknsteen FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Unfortunately, the opening in the radiator support is only so wide, so a wider radiator doesn't gain me much. So short of cutting it open more (which I really don't want to do), it appears my only option is to go stock 22" width radiator with a short mechanical fan so I can fit a shroud in.

    I could go with a stock radiator, or even a newer design aluminum, but since I am running a 70's 400 in it, the water pump housing has the inlet on the passenger side instead of the driver side, which was standard on pre-70 something motors. It seems that everything I look at for radiators, that are called out as being for a big block 67-69 Barracuda, have the upper hose on the passenger side and the lower hose on the driver side.

    Guess I could look through the water pump housings I have and swap it out to a driver side inlet and just put a stock design 67-69 radiator back into it with a mechanical fan and shroud. Just wanted to see what others on here did.

    Thanks!
     
  6. MomsDuster

    MomsDuster FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I’ve got a 440 in a 71 Duster, 26” ECP radiator using the Ford Contour fans and shroud. I did have to take a little off of the shroud to clear the pump. I don’t have any road time as of yet but I did break in the cam with this set up and never saw any more than 210* on the gauges. That was 2000rpm for 30 minutes in 95* California summer afternoon in the garage. Just some info to chew on.

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  7. Frnknsteen

    Frnknsteen FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I'll look, but I don't know that I could even fit a 26" radiator in there. If I could, I know the edges would be covered by the radiator support.
     
  8. MomsDuster

    MomsDuster FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Yeah, there is a little on each side covered up on mine. Not sure if it makes a difference either way. I know they make a 22” also. Wouldn’t hurt to give them a call and see what they can do. Good luck.
     
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    • Willyrd

      Willyrd Well-Known Member

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      A ford part finds its way into every mopar
       
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      • yellow rose

        yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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        Make damn sure you have the water pump pulley smaller than the crank pulley. The water pump MUST turn faster than the crank.

        Not a big fan of electric fans. The hassle factor isn't worth it to me.
         
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        • Mike69cuda

          Mike69cuda 64 is the new 17 FABO Gold Member

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          I used a thermostatic fan clutch, 7 blade fan, and shroud off a 90s vintage dodge truck from the junkyard. Clutch looked pretty new so I used it. $35 cheapskate priced for all of it. Had to improvise some mounting screws for the shroud & modify it a little. Works great on a 360. Mine has a/c so it needs the help. Stays under about 210 on a hot day with the a/c on. Saved many $$ from buying aftermarket.
           
        • red67gts

          red67gts FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          I will say that the Ford Contour fans do work. I was running up to 240 on my 67 GTS with 499". Took the March pulleys off and installed Contour fans with Dakota controller and no more heating problems.
           
        • Frnknsteen

          Frnknsteen FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Good point! I looked at the pictures, and it appears smaller, but I will take some measurements and see. I have a couple other pulleys laying around off other motors. I will see what the pulley diameters look like and maybe try a smaller one. I still need to find a way to get a shroud on there though. Even if I have to make one and go back to mechanical.
           
        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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          Plus it wont fit between the pump and the rad.on most big block set ups>contour.
          iT SURE WOULDN`T FIT W/ MY RAD.
           
        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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          THIS !
           
        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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          MARCH PULLEYS ARE USUALLY UNDER DRIVEN FOR AN EXDTRA 1 H.P.
           
        • furyus2

          furyus2 Well-Known Member

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          This is my setup. It's on a 64 Sport Fury. The point is, I have a 22 inch opening, but I'm using a 26inch radiator, and shroud from a 1969 Road Runner, and the Summit fan. Runs 180 to 190 in Florida weather. I only used that particular radiator since I had it. It is a 3 row brass. Supposedly, a 2 row aluminum will cool as well, giving you some needed radiator to water pump clearance.

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          • famous bob

            famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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            Nice car, but a fury has more engine bay length than Abodies. Had a 63 sport fury when I was a kid.
             
          • furyus2

            furyus2 Well-Known Member

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            I get that. If you reread my post, you will see that my subject was in reference to the width of the core support, versus the width of the radiator. And I suggested a wider, thinner would help the OP to find some of that room between the WP, and the radiator.
             
          • famous bob

            famous bob mopar misfit FABO Gold Member

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            yeah, Ive got a 28" wide crossflow in mine w/ the tanks still behind the rad. support.
            Hve been wondering howmuch , if any it would help to cut the opening bigger. ??
             
          • furyus2

            furyus2 Well-Known Member

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            IMO, I wouldn't unless it was my last option. I just hate to do any mods that I can't put back. My core support only covers about an 1 1/2 inches on each side. I feel that the extra surface area of the wider radiator helps, just not as much as if the core support opening was wider. I think a good mechanical fan, that pulls a lot of air, coupled with a good fan shroud, would help the op the most. I also have the 69 340 swinger in my avatar, and installed a 22 inch aluminum radiator, since I couldn't find a correct brass one for a reasonable price. I had all the same symptoms as the OP. I fabricated my own shroud, since the stock one wouldn't fit, and all my troubles went away. No more low speed overheating, never runs hot. And the hood to core support seal really helps.
             
          • Frnknsteen

            Frnknsteen FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Thanks Furyus2! I may try to fab up a home-made shroud as I've seen others do on here and put a flex fan and spacer on with my existing radiator and see how it does. That would be the easiest to try, at the lowest cost. If that doesn't work, then I may try the bigger radiator tucked in behind the stock core support. I took a look last night and I've got a little room on both sides that I think I can squeeze a 26" radiator in there and let the extra hang out behind the core support. May just have to relocate the overflow bottle a bit. At least if I do that I can find a factory shroud for a 26" that may fit.

            I've talked to someone at Cold Case radiators, and that's kind of what they are suggesting too, though they are suggesting a 26" radiator (for extra volume) with two 12" electric fans (to miss the water pump pulley in the middle). I'm thinking I might rather go back to a mechanical fan though.
             
          • furyus2

            furyus2 Well-Known Member

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            I prefer to keep it simple, by using a mechanical fan. Look at the fan on my car. It's from Summit, costs $40, and moves a lot of air.
             
          • Frnknsteen

            Frnknsteen FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Well,... I finally got something put together for a new cooling system and it seems to be working much better than what I had. Thought I'd share what I ended up going with in case it might help others.

            When I tore my old system apart, I realized the previous owner cobbled together pulleys to make something fit. He was running a 3 groove crank pulley (No AC or PS in my car) and apparently had a hard time finding a water pump pulley because he welded in a spacer in the inside of the pulley he chose, then added washers to space it out even further. I don't know how he ever got it installed without a wobble because it had no back support, so as you tightened each bolt the pulley would lean that direction. I ended up going to Mancini racing and buying their single groove BB pulleys for crank and water pump.

            I chose a 22" Champion 3-core radiator and shroud. I had to open up the mounting slots just a bit on the radiator and shroud, but it ended up fitting in pretty good. The shroud left a 3/4" gap along the top and bottom though, so I got a 2" wide strip of 1/16" ABS and formed it to the top and bottom of the shroud to fill the gap, then riveted it into place. I then slit a length of 1.8" ID hose and put it over the ABS I added to work as a seal.

            I got a Derale performance flex fan. I'm not a big fan of flex fans, especially the aluminum bladed ones, because most seem to only be rated for 4000 rpm's. This one is rated to 8000 rpms and is steel framed with stainless blades. I'm not racing this thing and will rarely (if ever) go much over 5000 rpms, so I'm good with it. Now having the right shroud on there,.... this thing moves a lot of air. Added a FlowKooler water pump that seemed to get real good ratings and a Miloden high flow thermostat.

            Obviously it's not warm enough to really test it, but I was able to run the car in my garage for over a half hour with no issues. My old system would have just sat there getting hotter and hotter. Now it warms to just under 180 (about 178 on my gauge) and the thermostat opens. Coolant starts to flow through the radiator and the gauge drops right back down to about 170-175. You can watch the thermostat operate on the temp gauge. Does the same when driving in town in stop and go traffic where I used to overheat. We'll see where it runs next summer when it is a little warmer out.

            I took some pictures of the new setup, but forgot my phone at home today. I will try to remember to post some up tonight.
             
          • RogerRamRod

            RogerRamRod The Older I Get, The Faster I Was

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            Frnknsteen, can’t offer anything that hasn’t already been said, but I have a question.
            Do you recall where you got those upper radiator brackets, or does anybody else following this know where to find brackets like that?
            Edit: I had only gone through about 1/2 the thread when I asked. Glad you got it sorted out. I will add that I would do some more tests next summer. Now that you have everything working correctly, and enough capacity, you may want to start upping your operating temperature. I don’t know the “ideal” temp, but 200 or a bit over is supposed to be more efficient, & cleaner. You might even check your oil temp. You want it hot enough to drive off moisture created by the combustion process. (If you aren’t already burned out on tracking temperatures)
             
            Last edited: Nov 5, 2018
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