Rear Main Seal

Discussion in 'Small Block Mopar Engine' started by superchargeddrt, Aug 5, 2018.

  1. superchargeddrt

    superchargeddrt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Okay,
    So I pulled the engine back out of the Dart after checking with dye to determine what was leaking. It looked like the oil was leaking from the oil pan gasket in the rear but after changing the gasket and reinstalling the engine I still have a leak! I can't get the oil pan off while it's in the car because the oil pan pickup is not allowing the pan to move forward. My question is is it feasible to loosen the K member while supporting the engine from the top with a hoist to gain the extra space I need? The oil pan is one of the 8 quart Milodons that bell out on the bottom. If any of you have a trick for removing the pan while in the car I'm all ears. This is the most frustrating experience of my life and I'm ready to drop the tools and wait until next year. Thanks for your help.
     
  2. MOPAROFFICIAL

    MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

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    I have the same pan, but with the front corner mod and would like to know as well. Gonna attempt this soon or not .
     
  3. superchargeddrt

    superchargeddrt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    Probably next weekend. I will keep you all informed.
     
  4. inertia

    inertia Well-Known Member

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    Can you reach thru the gap, undo the pump, let it drop in the pan. ?

    Seems to me I went thru a similar thing, decades ago.
     
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    • robert flippo

      robert flippo Well-Known Member

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      with large oil pan may take motor mounts loose and raise the motor enough
       
      Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
    • superchargeddrt

      superchargeddrt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      Q
      Good idea! I think we might try that. Thanks!
       
    • pishta

      pishta I know I'm right....

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      even the stock 65 pan takes the right crank clocking to get the pan off with the motor in the car. Have you tried turning the crank or is it obvious that the pickup and pan shape prevents an easy slide out? Trouble with the engine hoist is that your back under the car with the motor slung and that is dangerous. Pick the motor up and wedge a 2X4 block under the motor mount for some physical support. Watch the distributor and the fan when you pick the motor up.
       
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      • superchargeddrt

        superchargeddrt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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        I forgot that I have a windage tray and I can't get to the oil pump bolts ARRRRRRGH
         
      • sireland67

        sireland67 Well-Known Member

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        Just pull the motor.
        I bet you could have already had the engine out with as much time you have spent trying to take a short cut.
         
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        • diymirage

          diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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          Ever since you took that blower of its been nothing but problems, hasn't it?
           
        • superchargeddrt

          superchargeddrt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Hate to say it but it sure seems that way.
           
        • diymirage

          diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline FABO Gold Member

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          Kinda reminds me of my bronco...nothing but problems
           
        • Wyrmrider

          Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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          here's the last picture of the rear main seal b 4 it was eaten by a great white
          upload_2018-8-6_18-4-46.jpeg
           
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          • superchargeddrt

            superchargeddrt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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            Yeah I agree but I'm having trouble getting up the ambition to pull it out after just putting it back in a week ago.
             
          • sireland67

            sireland67 Well-Known Member

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            At least the bolts will come out easy.
             
          • yellow rose

            yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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            Yep, you're stuck. I couldn't get a stock pan off in the car and I fought it like jack the bear (I was substantially younger back then) until I had enough and just pulled the engine.

            It's hard to get motivated to do the work over but it's actually quicker and easier to yank the pig out and fix it.


            BTW, when you check the rear main seal, look very close at how far the seal is proud from the cap and block.

            You really only need .010-.015 crush on the seal and that's plenty. I never clock the seal with the ends below the cap and block.

            If your block was line honed it makes the seal stick too far out of the block and cap. When you bolt them together with too much crush, it will force the seal out of round. And it will leak.

            The only fix I know is to very carefully sand a little off both ends of each seal until you have the correct amount of seal sticking past the cap and block.

            Practice up on the old seal before you work on the new seal. I just use a little belt sander. Keep the ends as square as you can.

            That's my best .02 cents to try and help you. You'd be surprised how many guys don't check that and end up with oil leaks at the seal.

            That and putting either the whole seal in backwards. Or just on half of it.

            Don't ask how I know that. Just know that I know it.
             
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            • AJ/FormS

              AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

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              Hyup, I got caught on that line-hone thing. The shop basically Junked my block. After replacing the seal once and having it leak again before the end of the summer, I went back and looked at the first seal, and don't you know it, the evidence was right there. But it was so bad I went back to the machine shop, and showed them. With a straight face the guy behind the counter said "Bring us another block and we'll fix it; no charge." What about the decking and boring and squaring? "Well, no; we didn't do any of that machining".
              And they never will see me again.

              Ok long story short, I got a rope seal from a 383 and stuffed it in there with a little trimming. It's not happy about the knurling back there, but it's tolerable.
               
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              • Wyrmrider

                Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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                good advice YR
                 
              • yellow rose

                yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                If you do a rope seal correctly, they actually work well.
                 
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                • superchargeddrt

                  superchargeddrt FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                  Thanks for all of your advice guys. I guess we are pulling the engine a second time. This is what I get for not changing that seal as a matter of course. I am gonna give it one more try this year and if it still leaks it's gonna wait until next season. Thanks Again!
                   
                • AJ/FormS

                  AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

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                  Ok truth? It took me a couple of tries,lol,
                  But in those days I was taking the 367 out every September long, and swapping in my 318 test mule engine for the winter. So then I would take the 367 apart over the winter looking for issues before they spoiled my next summer. The engine usually went back in on May-long. Most of the gaskets were the re-useable type, so this wasn't costing much more than time.
                  The first rope seal was a disaster; it did not survive the install. The second didn't pass the pressure test. The third time was a charm. Fourth and fifth,also good. Now it's been in there since 2004/5.
                   
                • AJ/FormS

                  AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

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                  Rig up a pressure test while the engine is still on the stand. I use 3 to 4psi NO-MORE, else it will want to blow something out. Please Lord don't let it be the rear cam plug.
                  4 psi doesn't sound like much, but on a 2 inch round plug that is 12.5 pounds of force. Can your cam-plug take it? Let's find out, shall we,lol.
                  Your engine normally is ventilated so should never generate 3 to 4 psi pressure. At least not in it's early years,lol. But pressures that low are really hard to regulate. I shoot for 3 and panic at 4.Once the pressure stabilizes, I hit it with the soapy water trick.
                  May the force be on your side.
                   
                • jdsduster

                  jdsduster Well-Known Member

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                  this has got to be very frustrating,i feel your aggravation .
                   
                • nm9stheham

                  nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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                  The IF is the issue... I am about 50-50 with rope seals ... I guess that is better than 0-100, but I suspect a child could do better LOL

                  The only rear seals I have had 100% success with are the full circular seals in some other engines.
                   
                • yellow rose

                  yellow rose Doctor of Thinkology.

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                  That's because the full circular (one piece) seals aren't affected by line honing.

                  50/50 isn't bad. I know guys who are O'fer on them and won't even look at them.