Rhoads Lifters On Solid Lifter Cam - Setting Valve Lash

Small Block Mopar Engine

  1. Wyrmrider

    Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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    AFIK Kerby is still in business
    great guy
    he's out at the west side of the san fernando valley now
    Sissel moved from his dad's place to Semen street also in South El Monte then Kirby moved out to West Covina then Covina now the Valley
    That aluminum head is really nice but not in my budget
    did you ever see the rig they use to machine heads
    all hydraullic trace- no cnc
    also the two piece pushrod for the 292 really works
    for those reading there is a bushing in the middle with two cups- cuts out pushrod flex and vibration with the long 292 pushrods
    good vibration dampner is key to 6 cyl chevy or any thing really
     
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    • enigma57

      enigma57 Well-Known Member

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      Agree 100%, Wyrmrider. No, I haven't visited their shop. Just exchanged a few E-mails with Mike. Heck of a nice guy and really knows these engines.

      Yeah, the aluminum 12-port head is a thing of beauty. Beyond my budget, as well. Would have been fun building a true IR runner intake for it and setting it up for the Weber DCNF carbs I have here, only configured differently than I must do with the 9-port siamesed intake iron head setup.

      I was wondering about the 2-piece pushrod setup. Saw it described in Leo Santucci's book. Was wondering with what I would describe as a less than radical cam and matching spring combo (Isky says to run 135 lb. on the seat and 385 lb. spring rate with 1.8" installed height on this cam)...... Would the 2-piece pushrod setup be necessary? Or would larger dia. 1-piece 3/8" thickwall heat treated pushrods do the job and possibly be lighter?

      Will definitely be looking at the torsional dampner. Engine length is going to be tight in the '57 and I will need to move the radiator forward. But would like to run a new 8" small block malleable iron dampner I have here. This would also allow me to use a separate crankshaft pulley bolted to the dampner hub rather than have the drive belts run off grooves machined into the outer circumference of the torsional dampner as the stock dampner does. If I can pull this off, should be able to make spacer for water pump and modify accessory brackets to line up alternator, etc. with new crank pulley location.

      Best regards,

      Harry
       
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      • Bakerlite

        Bakerlite Well-Known Member

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        I'd be asking the cam manufacturer about running those those lifters on a solid cam before I asked the lifter manufacturer.
         
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        • enigma57

          enigma57 Well-Known Member

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          Will do!

          HB
           
        • Wyrmrider

          Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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          Sissel had a turbo on the engine in his van- sleeper
          I think I ran the Isky 6005 duals set up for the proper pressure
          beehives?
          I was running stock rockers with a coating
          but have a set of crower BBC 1.8 rockers I am going to try next time if ever
          studs started to pull (typical chevy) so pinned then drilled and tapped for some screw in studs that were a little longer- if roller rockers you definately have to have longer studs to get the midlift geometry right a must if running rolller tip rockers the ball has to go up around the radius of the roller tip
           
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          • enigma57

            enigma57 Well-Known Member

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            Yes, with the old Isky E-4 solid lifter cams so popular in the 1950s (mine is very similar, I even used an E-4 exhaust lobe), the 6005 dual springs were the recommended springs. They must be installed at 1.750" rather than 1.80", so with 1.7 rockers, I want to make sure there will not be coil bind. I am also looking through various PACalloy springs of similar pressure and installed height to see what they have.

            I found some LS type beehive single springs in Isky's online catalogue that were of the same required pressure and installed height. Ran both of these (the 6005s and the beehive springs) by Isky when I called in my specs to have the cam ground. They were of the opinion that a dual spring of same pressure and installed height would give better valve control, especially with 1.7 rockers and the beehive single springs were more a way for OEM manufacturers to cut production costs than anything.

            On the 292 inline 6, I am running early year OEM long slot high perf. BBC 1.7 stamped rockers on 7/16" ARP big block rocker studs, Wyrmrider. Was fortunate to find NOS parts on e-Bay. Had to piece a matching set with same code stampings together from 4 sources, as no one had 12 of them.

            No performance advantage running roller rockers on a Chevy with less than 0.500" lift and a fairly mild cam. Also, this being for a road car, not a race car that will have its engine torn down and freshened on a regular basis...... Roller rockers tend to have issues around 60,000 miles. Especially the small diameter roller tips. Needle bearings were not designed for such use (concentrated load on only a few needle bearings rocking back and forth). They were designed to rotate fully around a spindle and at that mileage, tend to come apart or need replacement (which costs as much or more as new roller rockers).

            So I decided to stay with stamped rockers on the Chevy. The 360 Chrysler will get Crane adjustable rockers that appear to be copies of the 273 adjustable types. Still piecing the MOPAR valvetrain parts together. On the small block MOPAR shaft rockers, there is no oil pumped up through lifters and pushrods unless you substitute .904" AMC lifters and custom length tubular pushrods. Rather, they oil through block and head passages to the rocker shafts. Was wondering about ways to better oil the cups at upper end of 273 type pushrods needed for these Crane 273 type adjustable rockers. When I was a kid, the Ford Y-block guys would run an 'oiler' made of small diameter copper tubing with very small holes drilled in it and fasten it to the underside of their valve covers so it would oil their rockers. Wonder if that might work for the 273 type adjustable rockers? Or has anyone successfully used AMC lifters and tubular pushrods to better oil the cup end of the 273 type MOPAR adjustable rockers?

            Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated.

            Best regards,

            Harry
             
            Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
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            • Wyrmrider

              Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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              on the right track
              I've had no problems with the stock 6 rockers but will check out the bbc- what exctly and are they still available? Same reason I've never put on the roller tip rockers
              I have used AMC lifters and hollow pushrods for years- works great and same cost
              I also like cup on the adjuster as it gives a little longer pushrod
              I've also drilled the rockers for ford size cup adjusters and to straighten out the adjuster angle and to increase the ratio (on the mopars)
              I like your 7/16 stud I'm still on 5/
              on the boat motor I'm running a remote oil filter and cooler and remote oil pressure relief (first made of a BBM pump with some passages plugged- so easy to change the spring
              pump is a hv with stiff spring as the remote actually sets the pressure at the far end of the block
               
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              • enigma57

                enigma57 Well-Known Member

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                I'll look into AMC oil through lifters and tubular pushrods for the 360. Will need to measure with pushrod checker once I have remainder of valve train parts for it.

                I am sure the stock Chevy inline 6 rockers would work just fine with a mild cam such as mine. The inline 6 is an odd bird in that it uses same rocker arm dimensions and geometry as big block and same 1.72 rocker ratio, but uses a 3/8" small block rocker stud (at top, with 7/16" thread where it screws into head.) Along with small block valves and valve springs.

                I need to pull pressed-in rocker studs and drill / tap heads for screw-in rocker studs anyway, so thought I would just go ahead and use 7/16" studs and big block rockers. I have the early '65 OEM high perf. long slot rockers for high lift 396 cam. There are aftermarket versions, as well. This is Isky's stamped steel long slot rocker for BBC......

                Long Slot Rocker Arm [3960LSR] - $160.00 : ISKY Racing Cams, Do It Right

                What did you coat your stamped steel rockers with? Is it something to make the friction surfaces slicker?

                I like the remote oil filter and oil cooler idea. Have been thinking of using a remote mount oil filter. Not sure if I need an oil cooler on the 292 in the '57. I think that will be OK. Mainly want to locate filter in a convenient place and keep from having oil drip all over the engine beneath filter and onto front crossmember when changing filter. If I can locate a source for the 292 long 2-qt. spin-on filter for dump trucks and farm equipment, I'd like to use that. The added oil capacity and filter area are a plus and the engine tends to run a bit cooler as well. I have used them years ago on small block V-8's where there was room.

                We are expecting some bad weather over the next several hours. Should reach us before very much longer. Heavy rain, large hail, lots of lightning, wind gusts over 70 MPH and there is a tornado watch as well. So will post this whilst we still have electric. No storm cellars here near the Texas Gulf coast. Water table is around 3 ft. to 7 ft. below natural ground level. So we must ride out storms like this above ground in our homes.

                Best regards,

                Harry
                 
                Last edited: Jan 10, 2020
              • Wyrmrider

                Wyrmrider Well-Known Member

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                harry
                I use a trans dap adapter with two of those long filters-WIX or NAPA_WIX or other Wix- hastings
                pan is baffeled 10 quart but no air flow hence the cooler
                I thought the 6 was 1.75 and the BBC was 1,72- whatever
                AFIK Chryslers are using the 2011 mopar lifter do check out the xtra lube mod
                do the drilling in a mill or drillpress- ASK ME WHY
                hint did know there studs with half inch thread???

                do you have a safe room?
                 
              • enigma57

                enigma57 Well-Known Member

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                Made it through the storms OK. Will go outside tomorrow and check out the roof and trees. No, we don't have a safe room. That's something I would like to include in our 'dream home' if we can build it one day.

                Yes, Santucci's book lists the OEM stamped rockers at 1.75 ratio for inline 6 and 1.72 for big block V-8. He states these ratios to be 'nominal' so there may be small variations in various versions of stamped rockers. But I think that as long as the set used is matched one to the others, it will work out OK.

                I'm not familiar with the newer Chrysler valve train components. Do you mean the 2011 - 2018 lifters are being retrofitted to the older blocks?

                I rec'd the Rhoads V-Max lifters with oiling mod in today's mail. Nice looking piece of machining. The oiling mod is a small flat machined on 1 side. Not very deep but looks to be close to 0.030" in width overall. That's eyeballing it, haven't measured it as yet.

                I reckon making a fixture to hold it and machining on a mill would be the way to go if someone was adding such a flat to a lifter themselves. Did you try doing this another way and have the lifter get away from you?

                I haven't encountered a rocker stud with 1/2" thread. If you mean for the OEM Chevy iron head, I'm not sure the rocker pedestal has enough meat on it not to be weakened by drilling it so large?

                Best regards,

                Harry
                 
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