Gadabout
Well-Known Member
The wires for the dash got roasted at some point, and the need repair or replacement. Where can I find this item or should I go with a universal kit? I am having trouble downloading pictures from phone.
Roasted Dash Wiring Harness: 1960 Valiant 200
- Thread starter Gadabout
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Roadart
Well-Known Member
If it is basically a stock system a universal system should work good.
Gadabout
Well-Known Member
OK, thanks! Tried a web search, and didn't find a thing specific to the model. It is believed that at some point, someone wired in a feeder wire of a very small gauge, causing them to overheat. At least that's what I'm told. I'm lucky it didn't catch fire. I am determined to drag this car over the finish line.
The factory Chrysler harness was barely adequate. I'm unsure you're going to find an aftermarket "generic" harness that will even come close. We used an American Autowire universal (GM style) on an old Mopar and we had to really modify the engine and dash harness with bigger wiring. This had to be done, because most of the GM harnesses are wired for a volt meter instead of an ammeter. The ammeter requires much larger wires. What you need to do first is find exactly what caused the wiring trouble, or you may be bound to let history repeat itself.
The car is pretty basic only a few circuits, should be able to make your own either from scratch or repair or with a basic kit should do under the dash.
If not to good with electrical check this guy's site he shows how basic car circuits work.
If not to good with electrical check this guy's site he shows how basic car circuits work.
FSM available here, might need to look at year before or after or Dodge vs Plymouth.
Service Manuals – MyMopar
Also you can re[air your harness one wire at a time, all the terminals are available (with the exception of the over molded type) you can even up size the wire gauge while you are at it. ALSO many wires today have diferent insulations on them that make the resulting wire thinner than the OEM but the same AWG
Service Manuals – MyMopar
Also you can re[air your harness one wire at a time, all the terminals are available (with the exception of the over molded type) you can even up size the wire gauge while you are at it. ALSO many wires today have diferent insulations on them that make the resulting wire thinner than the OEM but the same AWG
i'd throw some type of universal hot rod kit in that bish and call it done.
you're talking about wiring that 60+ years old and who know what's been done to it since.
the factory stuff was hardly adequate at the time, better to upgrade now and future proof it.
you're talking about wiring that 60+ years old and who know what's been done to it since.
the factory stuff was hardly adequate at the time, better to upgrade now and future proof it.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
A. Find out a out what fried, and then we can figure out why it fried.
Otherwise it very well may happen again.
For example if there is a wire that got pinched under the hood, then replacing everything under the dash still won't fix the problem, and it will recur. Or for example the car is hot rodded tuner style and has a huge electrical load tapped in for an amp, or electic fuel pump and fans.
B. A 1960 A body whether US or Canadian has a different wiring scheme than the later A-bodies. So lots of things post with good intentions may not apply.
Lemme see what I can find from the last time a very early model came up.
Gadabout
Well-Known Member
Thank you, everyone, for your excellent knowledge and experience. First, I'm going to print out that wiring schematic. Second, I'm going to buy a service manual.
As to the root cause of what caused the wires to overheat and melt the insulation, Jerry, the mechanic, believes it to be a thin, brittle, under-gauge wire that went from the battery or something; I am guessing it is a positive feed, and it failed to transmit enough juice and this in some way caused the dash wiring to heat up enough to melt the dash wiring harness. It was replaced with a heavy gauge feeder wire when the alternator was replaced a few months ago. Until then, the wipers still functioned, then they stopped entirely.
I'll add to this thread as things progress, but any advice or experience is most welcome in the meantime.
As to the root cause of what caused the wires to overheat and melt the insulation, Jerry, the mechanic, believes it to be a thin, brittle, under-gauge wire that went from the battery or something; I am guessing it is a positive feed, and it failed to transmit enough juice and this in some way caused the dash wiring to heat up enough to melt the dash wiring harness. It was replaced with a heavy gauge feeder wire when the alternator was replaced a few months ago. Until then, the wipers still functioned, then they stopped entirely.
I'll add to this thread as things progress, but any advice or experience is most welcome in the meantime.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Shop amnual will help immensly unless its a heavily modified car.
Here's an illustration from the 1960 Chrysler Master Tech Conference showing how the main circuits connect with the ignition circuit. 1960 Alternator Service p. 8
First thing to notice that is different from later US built cars is the seperate starter solenoid (black arrow) mounted on top of the starter.
Here's a work-in-progress showing the main circuits in a 1960 Valiant-Lancer.
The wire colors in the diagram are based on the insulating colors used on some later years. Be glad to change them to match what you find.
It works as follows:
The battery positive connected to the starter solenoid. This was probably a heavy 4 gage wire and could have been black.
Wire A1 carries battery power into the cabin where it connects to the ammeter.
The ammeter shows current flow into or out of the battery.
( It should show slight Discharge during start, and Charge for a few minutes after start. It should not show discharge when the engine is running unless the alternator is not working. )
The alternator supplies power when the engine is running. Unlike later years, power wire (R6-12 gage black) was connected first to the headlight switch. From this junction on the headlight switch, it continues to the ammeter where it connects with wire (J1) going to the key switch.
When the car is starting, power goes through wires J3 and S2
When the key is in run, power is available in wires J2 as well as C1 and V1. So focus on these.
@Hyper_pak has posted that you will not find a fusebox. Instead there will be in-line fuses for the the circuits that have a fuse. Main circuits were never fused so don't feel you're missing out in that respect. However, in 1964 or '65 a fusible link was put on the battery feed to protect against battery grounding.
there's a photo of a UK export 1960 valiant engine bay here
Chrysler Valiant V200 Station Wagon Road Test 1960 (2) by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr
Here's an illustration from the 1960 Chrysler Master Tech Conference showing how the main circuits connect with the ignition circuit. 1960 Alternator Service p. 8
First thing to notice that is different from later US built cars is the seperate starter solenoid (black arrow) mounted on top of the starter.
Here's a work-in-progress showing the main circuits in a 1960 Valiant-Lancer.
The wire colors in the diagram are based on the insulating colors used on some later years. Be glad to change them to match what you find.
It works as follows:
The battery positive connected to the starter solenoid. This was probably a heavy 4 gage wire and could have been black.
Wire A1 carries battery power into the cabin where it connects to the ammeter.
The ammeter shows current flow into or out of the battery.
( It should show slight Discharge during start, and Charge for a few minutes after start. It should not show discharge when the engine is running unless the alternator is not working. )
The alternator supplies power when the engine is running. Unlike later years, power wire (R6-12 gage black) was connected first to the headlight switch. From this junction on the headlight switch, it continues to the ammeter where it connects with wire (J1) going to the key switch.
When the car is starting, power goes through wires J3 and S2
When the key is in run, power is available in wires J2 as well as C1 and V1. So focus on these.
@Hyper_pak has posted that you will not find a fusebox. Instead there will be in-line fuses for the the circuits that have a fuse. Main circuits were never fused so don't feel you're missing out in that respect. However, in 1964 or '65 a fusible link was put on the battery feed to protect against battery grounding.
there's a photo of a UK export 1960 valiant engine bay here
Chrysler Valiant V200 Station Wagon Road Test 1960 (2) by Trigger's Retro Road Tests!, on Flickr
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Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Well its good that you've started to look into it.
1. An under gage wire would not cause wires downstream to melt. Rather it would melt.
2. There would have to be something demanding power to cause a higher current flow at the other end of those wires to cause them to melt
- in other words the wire's condition had deteriorated to a point causing one of them to heat up under normal use.
or
something at the other end of the wire was drawing lots more power than planned by the designer.
I would suggest tracing the connections and colors yourself. Its a lot of time for a mechanic to do that type of work.
You don't usually need to visually trace each and every wire. Find the color and size at the starting point, and then look for the next junction or connector that the diagram indicates. If you need to confirm. You can disconnect both ends and do continuity test.
Look for exactly where the melting or burning occured, as well as for locations that show insulation damage, corrossion or water damage.
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It's great that your buying a 1960 Valiant factory service manual because the online diagrams shown up to this point don't match the one in the factory manual. Some of them are similar but not close to an exact match.
Gadabout
Well-Known Member
I will be downloading these photos and schematics, as well.
slantsixdan
=..=
Don't put it back the way it was; add some circuit protection. From the factory, the '60 Valiant had almost none, so a small electrical fault can quickly turn into a large electrical car-b-que. Read the links in this post for technique suggestions to make the car's electrics sturdier and safer.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
Gotta disagree with you on that Dan. Gadabout has enough to figure out first. There's no reason to jump into modifications until knowing more about what he has and what went wrong.
At this stage he has no way to judge whether the mods you like are going to be any more helpful than the insane mods promoted by an on-line retailer. That takes a few steps further on the learning curve. He and we have no way to judge whether the mods will be executed well. Seen enough "improvements" done that reuslted in poor connections, lack strain relief, are routed poorly and lead to failures.
At this stage he has no way to judge whether the mods you like are going to be any more helpful than the insane mods promoted by an on-line retailer. That takes a few steps further on the learning curve. He and we have no way to judge whether the mods will be executed well. Seen enough "improvements" done that reuslted in poor connections, lack strain relief, are routed poorly and lead to failures.
This might be useful information for anyone owning a 1960 Valiant.
In 1960 Chrysler issued two passenger parts catalogs.
One for the Plymouth Dodge DeSoto Chrysler and Imperial.
A completely separate parts catalog for the Valiant line.
MyMopar does not show the 1960 Valiant parts catalog.
There's usually a few of the 1960 Valiant parts catalogs on eBay.
In 1960 Chrysler issued two passenger parts catalogs.
One for the Plymouth Dodge DeSoto Chrysler and Imperial.
A completely separate parts catalog for the Valiant line.
MyMopar does not show the 1960 Valiant parts catalog.
There's usually a few of the 1960 Valiant parts catalogs on eBay.
Mattax
Just the facts, ma'am
A partial shop manual diagram posted in another thread shows wire X-1 branches from R-6 at the headlight switch.
X-1 is for items that need battery power when the key is off.
X-1, like wires R-6 and A-1, is always hot as long as the battery is connected.
edit: we see circuits D-3 and M-1 come off the "Aux" terminal on the Main Lighting Switch.
So those two are likely hot at all times as well.
D-3 we see goes to the brake light switch.
M-1 probably is the dome light feed.
X-1 is for items that need battery power when the key is off.
X-1, like wires R-6 and A-1, is always hot as long as the battery is connected.
edit: we see circuits D-3 and M-1 come off the "Aux" terminal on the Main Lighting Switch.
So those two are likely hot at all times as well.
D-3 we see goes to the brake light switch.
M-1 probably is the dome light feed.
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