Running electric

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dukeboy440

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I'm working on building a house along with ashop on some vacant ground I bought a few years back. Buildings will be located nearly 600 feet from the road where the closest pole is. I have to buy the two transformers needed for the distance, all but the first 100 feet of the wire. Local electric company quoted me the following for a 200 AMP main.

20-26 dollar a foot for labor(20 per ft if I dig the trench and bury it myself) plus 6-8 dollars per foot wire cost. 260 each for the transformers, 1000 dollar sign up fee. Total estimate ranges between 16,600 to 21,240 plus taxes and local fees (about another 2-3k on top of those figures).

So a coworker who happens to be one of the electrical engineers I work for, suggested looking at solar/wind power. I called around the last two days and got estimates. Based on the square footage of the house plan plus the shop, heated and AC at using about 1800 KWH average per month with a 20% buffer figured in. I can get a solar system installed on the house/shop, that nets an average of 2100 KWH with a 4 hour minimum of full sun. Comes with a battery bank system as well as hook ups for both generator and standard electric grid. All for the installed price of 18,900, and includes a 30 year warranty on panels and 20 year warranty on batteries.

Now I'm not looking at being green or "off the grid" but is there any cons to going solar other than the obvious of cloudy days? Can i run a welder occasionally with solar or would it just be too much load? Anyone running a solar power system?
 
???Why do you need 2 transformers? You adding 3 phase?

I don't see solar. Solar does not pay off, usually, after you "wear out" the batteries a few times, replace inverters, and account for constant management due to weather. "It's worse" here where we get a LOT of cloud cover
 
???Why do you need 2 transformers? You adding 3 phase?

I don't see solar. Solar does not pay off, usually, after you "wear out" the batteries a few times, replace inverters, and account for constant management due to weather. "It's worse" here where we get a LOT of cloud cover
Distance. According to their electrical engineer and confirmed with the one I work with, it has to do with the distance and voltage drop over that distance. Basically since I'm looking at 600 feet from the main line along the road, I'll need a transformer at that pole and one mid way between the house and that pole, roughly 300 feet in order to maintain no more than a 3% voltage drop at 600 feet.
 
Just a slight change/update. Just met with the engineer from the electric company. They'll only run a line to the meter drop. So that means a max of 300 feet. Thus cutting those figures for them in roughly half. i'll have to supply the remaining to connect to the house.
 
Build the house closer to the drop? Kind of a joke but if it is possible something to think about.
 
Talk to your engineers about upsizing the wire to reduce the voltage drop. It seems strange to add transformers to deal with voltage drop. It would work, but that is not the way we would do it here. I see the need for a transformer to reduce from transmission voltage to house voltage, but that is all. Could they extend it at transmission voltage to a single transformer closer to the house? Remember, the higher the voltage, the less voltage drop is an issue over the same distance. I have been an Electrician in rural Saskatchewan Canada since 1995, and that is how it would be approached here.

Cley
 
Talk to your engineers about upsizing the wire to reduce the voltage drop. It seems strange to add transformers to deal with voltage drop. It would work, but that is not the way we would do it here. I see the need for a transformer to reduce from transmission voltage to house voltage, but that is all. Could they extend it at transmission voltage to a single transformer closer to the house? Remember, the higher the voltage, the less voltage drop is an issue over the same distance. I have been an Electrician in rural Saskatchewan Canada since 1995, and that is how it would be approached here.

Cley
Yeah, the engineer i spoke with earlier this morning mentioned possibly doing both of those. The guy i spoke today is over all the electric installations in the county verse the team lead engineer I spoke with Monday. He mentioned that they can set the transformer and meter at a max of 300 feet from the main line on the road and run a 1000 MCM wire to ensure the voltage doesn't drop much. He's going to meet me this weekend at the site and walk the area with me versus trying to quote it via aerial photos.
 
Here's a thought...........does your local utility have to buy back excess solar power?? If (and I realize it's a BIG IF) they do, they get to plant the poles and run the wire up to your hose to "collect the excess " at no cost to you. It's a thought, look in to it.
 
Here's a thought...........does your local utility have to buy back excess solar power?? If (and I realize it's a BIG IF) they do, they get to plant the poles and run the wire up to your hose to "collect the excess " at no cost to you. It's a thought, look in to it.
That is a thought
 
Talk to your engineers about upsizing the wire to reduce the voltage drop. It seems strange to add transformers to deal with voltage drop. It would work, but that is not the way we would do it here. I see the need for a transformer to reduce from transmission voltage to house voltage, but that is all. Could they extend it at transmission voltage to a single transformer closer to the house? Remember, the higher the voltage, the less voltage drop is an issue over the same distance. I have been an Electrician in rural Saskatchewan Canada since 1995, and that is how it would be approached here.

Cley

I'm "not" but this is the idea I had in mind!!
 
Do your homework regarding wind and solar. It is great in theory, but anyone I know that has dabbled in this finds maintenance costs negate any gains from this type of energy production. It will be viable someday and I am going to jump on that band wagon eventually, but it's just net ready yet. At least not what I have seen. Where I live, the utility will not pay for over produced energy either. If they did, that may change the economics of it.
Cley
 
Do your homework regarding wind and solar. It is great in theory, but anyone I know that has dabbled in this finds maintenance costs negate any gains from this type of energy production. It will be viable someday and I am going to jump on that band wagon eventually, but it's just net ready yet. At least not what I have seen. Where I live, the utility will not pay for over produced energy either. If they did, that may change the economics of it.
Cley
yeah i agree. Problem is, I'm not sure what the option is going to be yet. If it is going to cost more like the initial quote to install a standard grid line than solar/wind, it may be worth the extra cost now versus in the long run. I'm in the boat of having to pay 15-25 grand regardless of which way I go it appears since this property has no current electric. If I was buying a place that already was connected to the grid, I'd stay away from the idea until it was more viable.
 
I assume you bought the property for a better price due to the lack of utilities. Investment in running traditional power to the place is an investment in the property value as well. Don't get me wrong, I love to see solar/wind installs as I dream of living "Off the Grid" some day too. Let me know how this turns out for you.

Cley
 
I assume you bought the property for a better price due to the lack of utilities. Investment in running traditional power to the place is an investment in the property value as well. Don't get me wrong, I love to see solar/wind installs as I dream of living "Off the Grid" some day too. Let me know how this turns out for you.

Cley
its property that's been in my family for over 100 years. Bought from the state in 1912. I got the family "discount". my property is a hill, with a dense forest of ash,maple, hickory and beech trees. a few pin oaks here or there and a ton of paw paw trees
 
Do you have propane that can be delivered?? Might think about putting most of the heavy hitters of a house on propane. Water heater, furnace, kitchen/stove, fireplace, clothes dryer. Once you take the amps of all of those traditional draws out of the equation, you'll find that you are left not needing quite so much juice. With most new houses that I've been working on, all the lighting is now LED, which is using about 7 watts a bulb vs 70. Suddenly you don't need quite so many solar panels. The one drawback is having to have propane delivered periodically, but the first time a storm hits, and the power goes out, you'll be happy that you can run your whole house on a relatively small backup generator, or in the case of non-grid tied solar, a smaller bank of batteries. Surprises me though that they can't just run the 6-7 kV transmission line up to your spot underground and then plant a transformer at the end.
 
Do you have propane that can be delivered?? Might think about putting most of the heavy hitters of a house on propane. Water heater, furnace, kitchen/stove, fireplace, clothes dryer. Once you take the amps of all of those traditional draws out of the equation, you'll find that you are left not needing quite so much juice. With most new houses that I've been working on, all the lighting is now LED, which is using about 7 watts a bulb vs 70. Suddenly you don't need quite so many solar panels. The one drawback is having to have propane delivered periodically, but the first time a storm hits, and the power goes out, you'll be happy that you can run your whole house on a relatively small backup generator, or in the case of non-grid tied solar, a smaller bank of batteries. Surprises me though that they can't just run the 6-7 kV transmission line up to your spot underground and then plant a transformer at the end.
Thats a great point! I know my wife does want a gas range so converting to a propane for all the rest would be easily done. the other thing is I plan on running point of source, tankless water heaters. They use far less power as well.

Its not that they can't run the line, its the sheer cost that's the problem.
 
Yeah, it's become so that you'd think the 6 gauge wire that they use for overhead is made of solid gold, and that the pecker poles with a cross-t on the top of them are hand carved by artisan woodcrafters out of solid mahogany. Instead of the reality, which is there's maybe a $1,000 of actual materials to go that far and the rest is just pure greed. Auger a hole, sink a pole, and then string 3 wires from pole to pole. It ain't the space shuttle.
 
Yeah, it's become so that you'd think the 6 gauge wire that they use for overhead is made of solid gold, and that the pecker poles with a cross-t on the top of them are hand carved by artisan woodcrafters out of solid mahogany. Instead of the reality, which is there's maybe a $1,000 of actual materials to go that far and the rest is just pure greed. Auger a hole, sink a pole, and then string 3 wires from pole to pole. It ain't the space shuttle.
i am going under ground. to go above ground, they want an 80 ft right away, 40 on each side of the line. I'm not cutting that much timber out of my woods.
 
Going underground is a smart move and one you will be thankful for after the first storm that would have knocked a tree into the lines and caused you to lose power.
Not truly off the grid but the shop at work was converted over to solar about 4 or 5 years ago. We went from a $400 to $600/ month electric bill to a $0 electric bill. We do not get paid for the excess but create enough that it was an easy sell to convince the boss to ac the entire building since it would only be the equipment cost he was paying for. Being a business the building is empty at night so we don’t have that draw and is empty on the weekends so the power made on those days offset anything we happen to draw off of the grid at other times.
 
Going underground is a smart move and one you will be thankful for after the first storm that would have knocked a tree into the lines and caused you to lose power.
Not truly off the grid but the shop at work was converted over to solar about 4 or 5 years ago. We went from a $400 to $600/ month electric bill to a $0 electric bill. We do not get paid for the excess but create enough that it was an easy sell to convince the boss to ac the entire building since it would only be the equipment cost he was paying for. Being a business the building is empty at night so we don’t have that draw and is empty on the weekends so the power made on those days offset anything we happen to draw off of the grid at other times.
Sweet thanks
 
Around here if you are building a house the costs are lots cheaper than building a barn or mobile home. You have to have house started before they will invest in lines but for running 4 poles about 1/4 mi will costs about 12-15,000. Just today power company was setting one pole, running line and then the drop to temporary pole after I had cleared the right of way and they showed up with 7 trucks!
 
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