Set timing, hei mod

Will_Swe

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Hi!

I have a valiant with 5.2 magnum engine.
Running megasquirt for fuel only.

I have mopar electronic distributor with the HEI mod done and msd blaster 2 coil.
I set initial timing at 8 btdc, but runs really bad. Sounds to be feeling good around 15-18 btdc. Is this normal after the mod?

engine is basically stock. Just thin head gaskets, kegger mod and headers, exhaust.

best regards//Will from Sweden.
 

George Jets

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Swap out the coil to the E-Coil, same coil that comes stock on 1995 Ford F150 Pickups.

You run straight 12 volt power to them, they work great with the Mopar HEI conversions.

Nice simple + and - spade terminals on them for easy hook up. Wire it for the full 12 volts bypassing the ballast resistor.

Can get one at the local Pick & Pull.
These E-Coils don't run hot either on the full 12 volts.

Had the same problem, now with the right e-coil, quick starts, runs real smooth at idle and on up into the rpms.

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67Dart273

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I would first check "rotor phasing." Google it. If you get the pickup wires reversed it will move the spark trigger point in relation to the rotor and crossfire and missfire.

The diagram posted above^^ is a good one and was drawn by one of the members on here. You do not want a ballast resistor with a GM module.
 

Will_Swe

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I used that wiring diagram setting it up. No ballast resistor anymore. Could be that i got the cables switched?
 

George Jets

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I used that wiring diagram setting it up. No ballast resistor anymore. Could be that i got the cables switched?

It's the coil, you need the E-Coil to get it to work right.
E-Coil = High Energy Coil 40,000 to 60,000 volts.

Follow the wiring diagram to do the wiring Correct.
 
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George Jets

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GM HEI module needs to be grounded to your distributor, the modules have a plastic tit on them that needs to be ground off so it fits flat, then install with the silicone jell that comes with the HEI module for good contact to ground.
 

67Dart273

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It's the coil, you need the E-Coil to get it to work right.
E-Coil = High Energy Coil 40,000 to 60,000 volts.

Follow the wiring diagram to do the wiring Correct.
Horse ****. While "some" coils might cause a problem, you don't HAVE to have an E coil to make the thing run and run well. That said, yes, the type of coil might somehow denegrate "ultimate" spark power output
 

67Dart273

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GM HEI module needs to be grounded to your distributor, the modules have a plastic tit on them that needs to be ground off so it fits flat, then install with the silicone jell that comes with the HEI module for good contact to ground.
They need to be grounded but not necessarily to the distributor. Not all HEI modules were even mounted in the distributor. The pickup coil is NOT grounded, rather an isolated two-wire hookup. Yes the locating "tit" either needs removed, or a clearance hole drilled in whatever bracket upon which it is mounted.
 

Will_Swe

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I grind down the plastic, mounted with paste under the HEI module. Made a aluminum cooler plate with cnc And bolted to firewall with an extra ground cable to engine. It really runs fine but initial timing seems extreme at like 18 degrees.

the ford HE coil isn’t something I get over night in Sweden though. Pick n pulls have like Volvos, civics and Mondeos here…
 

George Jets

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Check how your spark plugs are burning, the HEI Upgrade will make them burn cleaner than before.

Basically a lot hotter spark if things are working correctly. If they are starting to foul or turn black you know something is not quite right.

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67Dart273

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I grind down the plastic, mounted with paste under the HEI module. Made a aluminum cooler plate with cnc And bolted to firewall with an extra ground cable to engine. It really runs fine but initial timing seems extreme at like 18 degrees.

the ford HE coil isn’t something I get over night in Sweden though. Pick n pulls have like Volvos, civics and Mondeos here…
There are basically four main types of ignitions. 1---Various "coil on plug" so thos e coils do you no good. 2...Older "points" (breaker points) also known as "Kettering" ignition. Mostly older coils although of course there were high performance coils over the years. 3...Newer cars using distributors and capacitive discharge, and generally you don't want a "made for purpose" CD system coil in this use

4...The last type works like points, but with an electronic switch. this includes "most" newer cars using a distributor and without points. Any of these coils are likely to be better than the older points coils, if they are from something in the 80s and later. An "E core coil" is generally easier to recognize by sight, because it is not cylindrical like the older coils. I've no idea what the local brands over there use.

The fact is you can use almost ANY coil with an HEI. I used, as an experiment, the bone stock electronic coil on my 67 Dart. This was a fairly early, WELL used coil, and it makes noticeably more spark than the Mopar ECU when using a GM 4 pin. I also made up this "emergency ignition" which I've also used to "test fire" some "junk" engines here and there. You hook up ground, battery, and plug it into a Mopar breakerless ignition.

hwlcfa-jpg.jpg
 

George Jets

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I see there are Volvo E-Coils available, 1988 to 1993 2.3 engines. Should be available in Sweden.

RockAuto parts pictured here as examples.
Not sure what the 3rd center flat spade terminal is. possible ground connection.

Priced at $15.00 each at Rock Auto plus shipping. Should be able to buy local over in Sweden.

upload_2022-4-30_0-31-27.png




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Features & Benefits:
  • Their ignition coils use 100% pure copper windings in the primary and secondary bobbins to improve durability and provide higher resistance to internal shorts and dielectric breakdown
  • Their premium ignition coils consist of a special blended formula for the best performance, longest life and better heat dissipation
  • A full E-Lam core of silicon steel and solid brass high voltage terminals protects against corrosion. Their ignition coils are built for maximum output voltage
  • Primary and Secondary windings feature enamel magnet wire for the highest temperature rating in the aftermarket
  • As a tier I manufacturer with engineering and design capabilities second to none, their ignition coils are made to the highest quality standards
  • As a global manufacturer of original equipment ignition products, they maintain complete quality control throughout the manufacturing process from componentry to finished product

Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 12336238, 13674387, 3287677, 32876773, 33004272, T1031135, U504, UF50T, UF-50
 
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Bewy

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The usual reason an engine likes more timing at idle is it has a long-er duration cam in it than stock. Could this be the case?
[1] To check HEI p/up polarity: one of the Ch p/up wires should be black. This wire goes to the 'G' terminal [ small terminal ] on the HEI module.
[2] Module must be grounded through mounting ferrules to work.
[3] You can use ANY 12v coil, but if it is designed for points or comes with a bal res, the bal rest MUST be used.
[4] To get the highest spark energy from the module, use an E core coil like the MSD 8207.
 

Will_Swe

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I found the original magnum coil in the garage. I guess that one would work. Can I connect tach signal on positive on coil like normal too?
 

George Jets

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I found the original magnum coil in the garage. I guess that one would work. Can I connect tach signal on positive on coil like normal too?

Magnum Coil should work good.

Believe you need to connect your tachometer on the negative side (out going side) of the e-coil.

Just like the simpler earlier Points style systems where the tach signal wire goes on the negative side of the coil.

Best to leave that off to start with until you get it started up and running good with the e-coil first. One less thing to go wrong.

Up and running good, then hook up the tach.

Guess you probably know that you need to have your vacuum advance plugged while setting the timing.
Something like 12° Before Top Dead Center .
 

Will_Swe

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Yes, of course the negative side,, thats how its connected today. I just think a bit wrong there.

I will need the tach signal to trigger megasquirt thou.

I will need to make a new ignition cable between coil and cap. But I can only find connector on coilside With 1k Ohm resistance. (Not many places open on Saturday). Don’t know what’s the normal. Can I use that one?
 

George Jets

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Yes, of course the negative side,, thats how its connected today. I just think a bit wrong there.

I will need the tach signal to trigger megasquirt thou.

I will need to make a new ignition cable between coil and cap. But I can only find connector on coilside With 1k Ohm resistance. (Not many places open on Saturday). Don’t know what’s the normal. Can I use that one?

Can give it a try. Does your megasquirt user manual show how to wire it in there?
 

Will_Swe

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Yes! I redid phasing again. And it seems not been right first time.

and now I found a universal E-coil at Biltema, like Swedish Costco… :p bolted terminals and fit perfect. 25 usd…

Try to start it up but batteri been sitting long, and was not healthy. So I get a new one tomorrow and try it.
Thanks a lot for all help so far! Hopefully I get it working tomorrow.

now it’s beer o’clock here so I continue tomorrow. :)
 

George Jets

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Need a fully charged battery for sure dealing with electronic ignition and electronic fuel sources. 12 to 14 volts.
 

TT5.9mag

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I’ve heard the hei modules will fire down to like 8 volts but my experience with hei on my run stand is much different. Mine is very sensitive to low voltage and fires easily with a fully charged battery but not at all if the battery is weak. <10 volts cranking.
 

Will_Swe

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Update!
It works! Put a new battery in it. Fired right up, set initial to 12* runs great!
But dies directly with vacuum connected.
But I guess that’s because not mapped properly yet. So take it for test ride without vacuum and engine runs good. But trans slip a lot on second and third.. so got some work there to do. And overheating after 15 mins… (still have original slant 6 radiator on it..)
 

George Jets

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Make sure you have a full 4 gallons of coolant in the radiator, and engine.

It's hard to get the air bled out of the block and heads that is trapped behind the thermostat.

A few of us drill an 1/8" hole in the thermostat to help the trapped air get out of the engine when filling with coolant. Then it does not over heat.

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Will_Swe

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Make sure you have a full 4 gallons of coolant in the radiator, and engine.

It's hard to get the air bled out of the block and heads that is trapped behind the thermostat.

A few of us drill an 1/8" hole in the thermostat to help the trapped air get out of the engine when filling with coolant. Then it does not over heat.

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I Will try that! THX! :)
 
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