Should I make the swap to G3?

[MonkeyMadness]

Thanks for acknowledging this. I don't need guys beating on their chest saying which suspension is best. Opinions are like a$$holes, everyone has one. If simplicity is your reason, that's fine with me.

I think I've made the decision to start collecting parts for the swap. It would be nice to get everything I need and simply make the swap over a weekend. I have a large connector on my firewall for the engine management already. The plan would be make the harness so it can plug into the same connector. I don't think I would need to do any rewire on the firewall side, but that will need some investigation.
At that point, it would be a K member drop out, notch frame rail for alternator and paint, then install new K and engine. Plug in, and start tuning! I'm sure a single weekend is a lofty goal, but I think I could get it pretty close in one weekend.

Depending on the motor front cover/ Alt set up and what K-member you use. You may not have to notch the frame. I didn't and I'm also running the filter on the stock 45* offset mount, BUT I did have to notch my oil pan and move my booster 3" so its the small thing you might not think are an issue that ends up being the hiccup.
Also look into the exhaust manifolds that often is a hiccup for swaps. I went through 3 different sets before I found the right fit for my swap..
Good Luck and Hope to see your build thread here soon!

 

[DionR]

I think I've made the decision to start collecting parts for the swap. It would be nice to get everything I need and simply make the swap over a weekend. I have a large connector on my firewall for the engine management already. The plan would be make the harness so it can plug into the same connector. I don't think I would need to do any rewire on the firewall side, but that will need some investigation.
At that point, it would be a K member drop out, notch frame rail for alternator and paint, then install new K and engine. Plug in, and start tuning! I'm sure a single weekend is a lofty goal, but I think I could get it pretty close in one weekend.

Looking forward to seeing it done. I like it!

 

[racerjoe]

You can get connectors from DIY HEMI. I don’t know what fuel delivery you have but would recommend an in tank pump and a corvette filter regulator. You will also need a flex plate for the trans. Good luck. I couldn’t have done mine in a weekend, I don’t plan very well. I did do my my Alterkation in a day with the motor still in the car. Keep us posted.

I'm using a stand alone ECU. All the non-sensor connectors are Deutsch connectors.

 

[racerjoe]

We’re bouts in Louisiana are you. I will be going to the NOLA Mopar show in march. I’m in South Texas.

I just outside of New Orleans. I may drive to the show if I don't have anything else going on. The last Big Easy show I went to had more modern cars than 60-70s cars. I'm not interested in seeing 300 challengers and charges with silly decorations and **** all over them. Apparently that's the new way to modify cars.

 

[loganscuda]

I just outside of New Orleans. I may drive to the show if I don't have anything else going on. The last Big Easy show I went to had more modern cars than 60-70s cars. I'm not interested in seeing 300 challengers and charges with silly decorations and **** all over them. Apparently that's the new way to modify cars.

My wife enjoys going on the tours they have. We go to the show for the morning then go sight seeing. Several guys from San Antonio go every year and we usually convoy over there. You are right, it seems the past couple years it’s become a new car dealership parking lot. I think they opened it up to modern cars to generate more money for the charity. A lot of guys have gotten older and can’t make the trip.

 

[DionR]

My wife enjoys going on the tours they have. We go to the show for the morning then go sight seeing. Several guys from San Antonio go every year and we usually convoy over there. You are right, it seems the past couple years it’s become a new car dealership parking lot. I think they opened it up to modern cars to generate more money for the charity. A lot of guys have gotten older and can’t make the trip.

I bet part of getting older is enjoying driving the restored Mopar on long trips less and less. New cars have gotten pretty nice and as much fun as it is to cruise the old car around town, the seats, wind noise, mushy suspension and over powered steering along with high RPM and low gas mileage make it harder and harder to even want to take a trip like that. Upgraded like you did they are a blast, but stock or even drag oriented and it starts to be a bit of a “drag” (see what I did there ;-) ) after getting used to even an basic economy car people commute in.

I wonder how many of those new Challengers and Chargers are at that show driven by someone with an older restored car home in the garage.

 

[loganscuda]

I bet part of getting older is enjoying driving the restored Mopar on long trips less and less. New cars have gotten pretty nice and as much fun as it is to cruise the old car around town, the seats, wind noise, mushy suspension and over powered steering along with high RPM and low gas mileage make it harder and harder to even want to take a trip like that. Upgraded like you did they are a blast, but stock or even drag oriented and it starts to be a bit of a “drag” (see what I did there ;-) ) after getting used to even an basic economy car people commute in.

I wonder how many of those new Challengers and Chargers are at that show driven by someone with an older restored car home in the garage.

Or sold their classic to buy a Hellcat. I know a few that have done that.

 

[DionR]

Or sold their classic to buy a Hellcat. I know a few that have done that.

And I’m not sure I could argue with them. Sure you give up the “built, not bought” label, but there is no way I could ever build anything that competes with one on the whole. Good thing I am so cheap and poor.

 

[TT5.9mag]

And I’m not sure I could argue with them. Sure you give up the “built, not bought” label, but there is no way I could ever build anything that competes with one on the whole. Good thing I am so cheap and poor.

Yes you could. It’s not hard. They’re turds in the corners.

 

[DionR]

Yes you could. It’s not hard. They’re turds in the corners.

I’d probably go Widebody Scat Pack with a 6M myself, those aren’t turds in the corners. I gotta stop beating my head against that wall.

But they are still big and heavy, ripe for thieves, expensive to fix if they break, heck just flat expensive all around. All kinds of reasons not to do it, just saying there are some reasons to do it. And a long drive highlights some of those reasons when compared to a stock older car.

 

[TT5.9mag]

I’d probably go Widebody Scat Pack with a 6M myself, those aren’t turds in the corners. I gotta stop beating my head against that wall.

But they are still big and heavy, ripe for thieves, expensive to fix if they break, heck just flat expensive all around. All kinds of reasons not to do it, just saying there are some reasons to do it. And a long drive highlights some of those reasons when compared to a stock older car.

I agree with you they are nice and drive pretty well all around. What I don’t agree with is you not being able to build one to compete with it.

 

[Sublime one]

Well as a owner of both a Scat Pack modern Challenger, and the aforementioned Demon with 6.1 I can certainly attest the modern is much easier to drive. That being said guess how many miles I have put on it since I got the Demon running? Honking zero! But in all fairness the performance of the modern challenger is what drove me to do the swap in the first place. I have driven the scat pack across the country three times in total creature comfort. Once I had so many tools with me the car was listing, I mean seriously you could hide three hockey bags in the trunk! But the car is very heavy.

 

[DionR]

I agree with you they are nice and drive pretty well all around. What I don’t agree with is you not being able to build one to compete with it.

I expect someone could, I just don’t think I could. Not with the level of integration a Scat Pack has.

Targets would be 500+ hp, 6M, 24 mpg, AC, cruise, ABS, traction control, auto interior temp, backup camera, comfortable seats, PS, power door locks, power windows, Nav. I could do probably 90% of that, just not sure it wouldn’t look like a JC Whitney catalog threw up on the car.

Don’t get me wrong, I am still shooting to do just that. Just not sure how cohesive it will all turn out and sometimes I wonder if it wouldn’t be easier to just jump ship to a late model.

Now in all fairness, I think racerjoe has done most of that and done a great job of making it work well and look good. Even without the G3 swap. And there are others I can name, too.

I will say this, a 375 hp 5.7 would feel a lot faster in my 3600 Duster than it did in my 4200 Challenger. <<daydreaming>>

 

[DionR]

Well as a owner of both a Scat Pack modern Challenger, and the aforementioned Demon with 6.1 I can certainly attest the modern is much easier to drive. That being said guess how many miles I have put on it since I got the Demon running? Honking zero! But in all fairness the performance of the modern challenger is what drove me to do the swap in the first place. I have driven the scat pack across the country three times in total creature comfort. Once I had so many tools with me the car was listing, I mean seriously you could hide three hockey bags in the trunk! But the car is very heavy.

That’s similar to what is motivating me, except I had to sell my R/T. Funny thing is, when I had the Challenger, I hardly ever drove my Duster and almost all of my plans for mods was for the R/T. Kind of the opposite in that regard.

Now that I think about it, that can’t be totally true because I did most of my suspension mods on the Duster while I had the Challenger. Which did give me a decent back to back comparison between the two. And even with the moderately large TB’s (could always be bigger, right?) I think my Duster drove and handled at least as well as my STP equipped R/T. Only major detractor to my Duster was the slow manual steering, and I have a Borgeson box to put it so that should fix that.

 

[Map63Vette]

You can get connectors from DIY HEMI. I don’t know what fuel delivery you have but would recommend an in tank pump and a corvette filter regulator. You will also need a flex plate for the trans. Good luck. I couldn’t have done mine in a weekend, I don’t plan very well. I did do my my Alterkation in a day with the motor still in the car. Keep us posted.

If you need a list of connectors I might have it as well. I just completely rebuilt my engine harness from scratch when I did my MS3X computer upgrade. I found the actual connector models for pretty much every stock component on my 2006 5.7 at least. That way I could buy it at a housing and terminal level, not just pigtails that you have to splice. Usually quite a bit cheaper that way too as most connectors are really only a buck or 2 and most terminals are maybe 50 cents each plus a 10 cent wire seal. Beats paying $5 a connection like a lot of the places that sell connector kits charge.

 

[Map63Vette]

Targets would be 500+ hp, 6M, 24 mpg, AC, cruise, ABS, traction control, auto interior temp, backup camera, comfortable seats, PS, power door locks, power windows, Nav. I could do probably 90% of that, just not sure it wouldn’t look like a JC Whitney catalog threw up on the car.

You know, I've recently found out my car is getting closer and closer to this without me really realizing it. I've pretty much lived my whole life without having practical vehicles, and the Dart is quickly becoming a go-to option for me. My other vehicles are a 71 Vette (talk about zero storage), an 04 Viper (have done a few long trips with it), and a motorcycle. So the Dart is pretty much the only car that can carry anything, but it's also the only car without A/C, which I hope to change one day.

I'm not anywhere near the 500+ hp number, but I do have the 6 speed, can touch 30 mpg (assuming my computer isn't lying to me), have basic traction control, comfortable modern seats, and nav built into my Raspberry Pi secondary display. I've debated running cruise control via the Raspberry Pi as well (I did something similar to my Vette for a college project using a different microcontroller) since it's running my stock speedometer already. I keep thinking about power locks as well, mostly because my car has the setup where you can't actually lock the door unless it's closed, so it's kind of begging for a remote lock kit. The rest I'm okay without, but that may change someday.

I agree though that having all of that stuff in factory form is always going to look better and probably perform more seamlessly. That being said, half the fun I've had with my car is learning how the OEM systems work and sort of developing them myself. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade though, so that's also just how my mind works. I keep putting features in my car because I can and because I'm bored and like to tinker more than anything. I've never even used the nav setup I put on my computer, but the GPS was only $15 or something like that so I figured why not have it there just in case. The longest trip I've taken the Dart on so far was around 8 hours round trip and it was actually quite nice, though it could definitely use some updated weatherstripping and panel adjustments to try to better manage wind noise.

 

[loganscuda]

I love creature comforts it took me 8 years to finally buy the A/C which was probably the easiest thing I’ve done on the car. That and the heated BMW power seats.

 

[DionR]

You know, I've recently found out my car is getting closer and closer to this without me really realizing it. I've pretty much lived my whole life without having practical vehicles, and the Dart is quickly becoming a go-to option for me. My other vehicles are a 71 Vette (talk about zero storage), an 04 Viper (have done a few long trips with it), and a motorcycle. So the Dart is pretty much the only car that can carry anything, but it's also the only car without A/C, which I hope to change one day.

I'm not anywhere near the 500+ hp number, but I do have the 6 speed, can touch 30 mpg (assuming my computer isn't lying to me), have basic traction control, comfortable modern seats, and nav built into my Raspberry Pi secondary display. I've debated running cruise control via the Raspberry Pi as well (I did something similar to my Vette for a college project using a different microcontroller) since it's running my stock speedometer already. I keep thinking about power locks as well, mostly because my car has the setup where you can't actually lock the door unless it's closed, so it's kind of begging for a remote lock kit. The rest I'm okay without, but that may change someday.

I agree though that having all of that stuff in factory form is always going to look better and probably perform more seamlessly. That being said, half the fun I've had with my car is learning how the OEM systems work and sort of developing them myself. I'm a mechanical engineer by trade though, so that's also just how my mind works. I keep putting features in my car because I can and because I'm bored and like to tinker more than anything. I've never even used the nav setup I put on my computer, but the GPS was only $15 or something like that so I figured why not have it there just in case. The longest trip I've taken the Dart on so far was around 8 hours round trip and it was actually quite nice, though it could definitely use some updated weatherstripping and panel adjustments to try to better manage wind noise.

Yep, sounds like you are close to hitting all the bullet points. Nice job!

I totally missed that you had a T56 in your car. Hoping to pull the trigger on a 2.97/0.50 one in a couple of months.

To be clear, I am working on adding most of the things I mentioned to my car as well, minus the ABS as (right now) that seems like a real stretch. While not an ME, I am a Mechanical Engineering Tech (glorified drafter) and spend way too much time dreaming up ways to change things on most of the cars I own. I've laid out and built my own BBK, a custom pistol grip handle and played with a custom dash. My biggest problem is time though as it took me like 13 years (seriously, how dumb is that) to bolt the 13" brakes on my car. At that rate, I will be 35 years in the making to add the rest of the stuff. Add that I am too cheap for my own good resulting in spending time on retrofitting some OEM box for heat/AC instead of just springing for a kit.

Absolutely love the idea of modernizing these cars. Just wonder how Frankenstein mine will turn out (if I ever get it done).

 

[DionR]

I’m love creature comforts it took me 8 years to finally buy the A/C which was probably the easiest thing I’ve done on the car. That and the heated BMW power seats.

I've got a pair of E30 Sport Seats I need to fix and recover that I plan to put in. Might have to look at adding heat to them with one of those aftermarket kits, just for the wife though <<wink>>.

BTW, had those seats for like 5 years now. See how my track record is going?

 

[DionR]

If you need a list of connectors I might have it as well. I just completely rebuilt my engine harness from scratch when I did my MS3X computer upgrade. I found the actual connector models for pretty much every stock component on my 2006 5.7 at least. That way I could buy it at a housing and terminal level, not just pigtails that you have to splice. Usually quite a bit cheaper that way too as most connectors are really only a buck or 2 and most terminals are maybe 50 cents each plus a 10 cent wire seal. Beats paying $5 a connection like a lot of the places that sell connector kits charge.

I might be interested in that list as well...

 

[Map63Vette]

Yep, sounds like you are close to hitting all the bullet points. Nice job!

I totally missed that you had a T56 in your car. Hoping to pull the trigger on a 2.97/0.50 one in a couple of months.

To be clear, I am working on adding most of the things I mentioned to my car as well, minus the ABS as (right now) that seems like a real stretch. While not an ME, I am a Mechanical Engineering Tech (glorified drafter) and spend way too much time dreaming up ways to change things on most of the cars I own. I've laid out and built my own BBK, a custom pistol grip handle and played with a custom dash. My biggest problem is time though as it took me like 13 years (seriously, how dumb is that) to bolt the 13" brakes on my car. At that rate, I will be 35 years in the making to add the rest of the stuff. Add that I am too cheap for my own good resulting in spending time on retrofitting some OEM box for heat/AC instead of just springing for a kit.

Absolutely love the idea of modernizing these cars. Just wonder how Frankenstein mine will turn out (if I ever get it done).

Yeah, me being cheap as well is another reason I've built most of the stuff myself, lol. The wiring harness is actually one of the few times I pretty much just clicked the buy button without thinking about it too much. All told I probably spent $300-400 building my harness from scratch, though that was with some extra parts in case I messed up and I kept having to pay shipping every time I forgot something and had to make another order. Doesn't help that a lot of connector parts are on backorder everywhere, so that was another reason I didn't hesitate too long to pull the trigger.

I've nicknamed my car Frankendart or the junkyard dog. At last count I think I had parts from at least 13 different vehicles on it. And when I say different I mean totally different models, not just different years of the same thing. That really is half the fun to me though. I just look at the car and figure out what I can do next with what I have. I think my next plan is going to be getting the knock sensors hooked up to the new computer, but the module is currently out of stock.

 

[Map63Vette]

I might be interested in that list as well...

The main Hemi connectors on my 06 5.7 at least were as follows for some general info:

Injectors - EV6 style, any number of places make these, I ended up using some GT150 style ones I believe
Coils - Amp SSC (sealed sensor connector)
Alternator - my alternator is off a truck and was a 2 pin Yazaki, near impossible to buy the housing bare, but you can buy terminals to repin it if you already have one (or if you buy one of the pigtails that are everywhere)
MAP sensor - GT150 series, my sensor might be slightly different style, but it plugged into the harness that came with my MSD, so thinking maybe the connector is common at least
Cam position sensor - 3 pin Yazaki, only place I found this was at Holley in the EFI wiring section
Crank position sensor - Aptiv Apex 2.8 series for mine, though I believe this changed to a smaller Apex 1.2 in later years (my engine came with a 1.2 sensor installed, but the MSD harness needed the 2.8)
Oil pressure - Also Apex 2.8

I have GM coolant and manifold temp sensors since I'm running the Megasquirt which are Metri-Pack 150.2 series, but looks like Holley sells the factory connector kits as well (Connectors - Holley). Honestly, that site is just pretty handy as a reference to begin with. They might not spell out the full name of the connector, but the pictures of the housing and terminals usually got me pretty far as I started recognizing more and more. I went Metri-Pack 150 for most of my other accessory connections like my coil ignitors and the connection to my fuse box for power, but mostly just because that's what I picked. I like Deutsch stuff typically, but they can be on the expensive side and I don't have a closed barrel crimper yet. Amphenol makes knock-off Deutsch compatible parts now though, so that's a slightly more affordable option (and what I used for my bulkhead connectors on the firewall). I also got the open barrel style contacts for them, but they don't really work quite as nicely as the closed barrel ones. If you've got any questions on a particular connector let me know though and I might be able to help you out. I spent far too many late nights digging through websites trying to find info. I have part numbers for all of the housings, terminals, and seals as well, so if you want that level of detail shoot me a PM with your email and I can send you the spreadsheet.