Should Members of a Club Sponsoring a Car Show Be Eligible for Awards

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  1. harrisonm

    harrisonm Well-Known Member

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    We had a Mopar club in Topeka for about 7 years, until people got lazy and lost interest. We sponsored an all Mopar car show every year, and we had a hard rule that club members were not eligible for awards. I firmly believe that members of the club sponsoring the show should not be eligible for awards. How do you all feel about that?

    About 35 years ago, I did a body off restoration of a 65 Corvette Convertible. It looked beautiful inside and out and under the hood. I took it to a car show sponsored by the Arkansas street rod association. There was an award category for Corvettes, and there were only 3 Vettes in the show. I thought I was a lock for first place, since the other two were very 'rough around the edges'. Turns out that the other two Vettes were owned by club members, and I got third place. It was my first car show, and I was very disappointed.

    There used to be a BIG annual car show in Topeka over the Labor Day weekend. It was sponsored by the Topeka Classic Chevy Club, and all money raised went to Muscular Dystrophy. Well, every single year most of the awards went to club members. People did not care for that at all, and the show just died away.
     
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    • str12-340

      str12-340 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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      We have had this discussion in the Mopar club that I've belonged to for about 20 years. I think that it all depends on how the judging is done. If club members do the choosing then I think definitely they shouldn't be up for trophies. Several Mopar shows I go to have a separate class or classes for club member cars and they are usually voted on by the others attending the show. Some clubs have invited knowledgeable outside judges and then I think it's OK for club member cars to compete.
      Our club made a big switch several years ago and we ask for volunteers from the registered cars who are not club members and give each small group a few classes to judge (not any that contain their cars). Since club members don't choose, club members are eligible for class awards. Best of (show, paint, engine, interior) are selected by our club and never go to club members. People's choice is selected by ballots of all registered cars.

      I'll be interested to see others' opinions as our club discusses this every year!
       
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      • autoxcuda

        autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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        It goes back to quality of judging and judges:
        • Judge the car not the owner.
        • Judge the quality not the rarity, model, color, or what someone paid for it.
        • And of course, you don't have any person judging a class they are entered in (club members or not)
        • Consistency. Try not to have team judges. If you do, each judge must judge the same items for the whole class. No flip-flopping. If one judge does an interior, he must now do ALL the interiors.
        • Follow the 1 page judging sheet (don't make sheet overly complicated)
        • Take care of your judges or you won't have any. Have refreshments and/or lunch for them.

        I've seen events with club members not eligible make gross judging errors. A mistake is a mistake. Does it make it less of a mistake if the judge is not allowed to participate?

        If it's a large show, the percentage of club members that win will be very low. And other clubs will often have more winners than the host club. I've seen where a club 450 miles away win more trophies (5) than the host club members'.

        If there are no comparable judged shows in the area, you are punishing club members that volunteer. You said that Topeka club folded. So now NO ONE gets trophies or has an local event to attend. Is that better?
         
        Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
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        • autoxcuda

          autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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          There's some nice cars up there for sure. And some incredible collections and collectors.

          I remember Bob Mathews bringing down incredible Max Wedge cars years ago. Nowadays, Greg Peck, Gary Keay, Gary Hergert bring nice stuff from the NW,
           
          Last edited: Jun 23, 2022
        • go-fish

          go-fish Well-Known Member

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          Simple:
          Public judges = all cars judged
          Member judges = guest cars judged

          In my hometown, The Knights CC puts on a show and give everyone a judging card, even non-participants if they request one. They are having their 35th annual show but the club itself has been around since the 50's and had shows throughout their existence. I would categorize it as a large show and I won 3rd place in Mopar when I was a high schooler in the mid 90's and it was a 1974 318 2bbl Challenger with an old Earl Scheib paint job! I don't know how I got 3rd but it probably had something to do with the public judging as any car guy would have seen it as just a 318 2bbl.
           
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          • Yote

            Yote Well-Known Member

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            Our club (very small) has a participants choice and people’s choice (for spectators). We dropped the club choice after one member won 2-3 years in a row. Our members can display their cars but as HOST. They are not eligible for door prizes or prizes. I think it makes for a more “honest”show. We want entrants to win not our members at our show.
            Yote
             
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            • autoxcuda

              autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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              Are participant choice going to give Brown 72 Satellite a trophy over a black 71 Hemi Charger ?? We’ve given best of show’s to 318 4 door cars over Hemi convertibles. That’s not going to happen with participants choice. Is that fair to the guy that worked his butt of on a Silver 70 318 4dr Satellite (in MCG decades ago)?

              Also, if you have a large show with quality cars from 1000+ miles away there’s just too many cars and for participants to judge. Even if they only judge 3 classes. What stops them from starting judging before the cars are all in? Hard to control.

              And most of all, if you have multiple real high quality cars in one class, they will really be close and tough to judge. It will come down to undercarriage and extreme details. How can you ensure they are getting quality judging.

              I can see participants judge for 100-200 cars. But when you get to around 500 cars, logistics and quality level starts changing things.
               
              Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
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              • Slowswinger

                Slowswinger Well-Known Member

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                If there could be the appearance of impropriety it is best to remove yourself. Be it a car show, civics group, or elected position.
                 
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                • Kern Dog

                  Kern Dog I like girls that wiggle FABO Gold Member

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                  The Mopar club we have in Sacramento.....members cars are not eligible for judged competition.
                  On the topic you mentioned about the Corvette....
                  I've seen that happen and I have been on the losing end of it. One year in Petaluma CA, I was in the B body Dodge category and was sure that I'd score something. Three of the four cars that got trophies were owned by club members but one was clearly nicer than mine in every way. Even the "Honorable Mention" car was green with a black engine bay. The 1st was a properly restored '70 Charger. 2nd and 3rd were cars that were nice drivers but had mediocre paint jobs.

                  01 Ginger.JPG

                  I drove out having learned a lesson on car show member back scratching and favoritism. From there on, I dismissed the expectation of coming home with anything but memories and pictures.
                   
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                  • mopowers

                    mopowers Well-Known Member

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                    This is probably a stupid question, but what are the trophies at car shows typically for? Are they reserved for the highest quality cars, or does rarity/popularity of the car play into who gets them (e.g., the 318 4 door vs. hemi convertible example above)?

                    I think if I were a judge, I'd inherently favor the cars I thought were cool, versus ones that may be more "correct" or had nice shiny paint. Either way, it sounds like there's bound to be at least some level of subjectivity involved in any type of car show judging scenario.
                     
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                    • mcodecuda

                      mcodecuda Senior Member

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                      The club that I was involved with had participant judging where one class judged another class with no restrictions on club members competing with non-club members. We routinely drew 200 cars and it always seemed to work for us without controversy.
                       
                    • ocdart

                      ocdart Inland Mopars Car Club FABO Gold Member

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                      Our Inland Mopars Car Club puts on an annual all-Mopar car and truck show. Our club members do the bulk of the judging (we also have some volunteer judges help from other SoCal Mopar car clubs. They are not allowed to judge the class that their vehicle is in.)
                      Judging is done by a pair of judges per class. Each judges all of the cars in their assigned class, then their individual scores are averaged together.
                      We've always had a hard rule that Inland Mopars club cars are not eligible for any individual awards. Our show is a charity-benefit show so we ask the charity to pick two of our club cars as their favorites and we give an award to each of those noting they are "charity choice".
                      These practices work for our show and are appreciated by participants who have paid to enter, knowing that the host club cannot win any of the individual show awards.
                       
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                      • autoxcuda

                        autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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                        It's a car show, not a popularity show, not rarity show, not most expensive show, not who restored it show...

                        So focus on the objectivity. Like the quality and craftsmanship of work done. In stock classes the correctness to stock. In the modified classes the craftsmanship, overall execution of theme or flow, extent.

                        Before each event have a judging review/seminar. It can be simple and quick. This puts everyone on same page again.

                        There are a million ways to be partial and play favoritism. Being a club member that has a car entered is just one of those million. Focusing on being impartial and not playing favorites has bigger impact than just excluding a judge that's not judging their own car anyways.
                         
                        Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
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                        • missing linc

                          missing linc Loose nut behind the wheel

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                          Unfortunately it all too often becomes a popularity contest. I stopped entering judged shows long ago for the exact reasons mentioned above. I have never been interested in or driven by awards, though I have won a few, but it was so often clear that the winners were typically the same time and again, usually biased in favor of popularity, whether it was the owner's popularity or that of the vehicle.
                          (Hemi B and E body cars)
                          Now I very seldom enter my car in a show, but instead I will drive it there, park it and walk around, enjoying the show, take pictures of cars that I haven't seen before, then enjoy the rest of the day just going for a drive.
                           
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                          • diymirage

                            diymirage HP@idle > hondaHP@redline

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                            If I ran a club, put on a show and sponsored it, and my members would be banned from participating...that would be the last time I sponsored that show
                             
                          • Demonracer

                            Demonracer 71 Demon 00 Ram 16 Chrysler 300S 05 Caravan FABO Gold Member

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                            My thoughts are if the club is judging, no their cars shouldn't be eligible. If the spectators are judging, then yes their cars should be judged. Besides, isn't the idea really for enthusiasts to get together & have a good time.
                             
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                            • toolmanmike

                              toolmanmike Moderator Staff Member FABO Gold Member

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                              Show and shine.jpg In a nutshell, car show judging is a crapshoot. Professional judges would be the best way but one pro doesn't know it all for all models. I have seen a Satellite Sebring/GTX clone get judged at MCACN as a 97/100 car. The judge didn't even catch that it was a clone.
                              Peoples choice is sometimes good until some dweeb brings his neighborhood and all his cousins to vote and his clam of a car ends up "best of show". (I have seen it happen many times) Screw that. I don't go to many shows. Car cruises, cruise in's, and show and shines are my bag.
                               
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                              • autoxcuda

                                autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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                                Yep. Life is not perfect.

                                And you can always just go and put NO JUDGE on your dash placard and not be part of that. Then have a good time and support the event you are attending before it disappears.

                                And those "professional" judges are usually in the hobby with some sort of business for profit. They restore cars for $$, they document cars for $$, they sell parts for $$. On the flip side of that, they are usually the most knowledgeable people.

                                There's not too many people that have restored these cars, super knowledgeable and live in a cave away from the rest of society.

                                10-people-living-caves-vintage.jpg
                                 
                                Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
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                                • 66340SEDAN

                                  66340SEDAN FABO Member #3649 FABO Gold Member

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                                  Some shows I’ve been to have a club member class, and people can vote for their favorite car that way so their are no favorites.

                                  Most car shows shouldn’t be about awards....to me it’s more about hanging out, looking at others cars, but mostly it’s the people you get to meet and see. Honestly the best shows are the ones that are free to enter, with no trophies
                                   
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                                  • dustertogo

                                    dustertogo Well-Known Member

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                                    I personally hate most car shows due to the "politics". I'd much rather attend a nice cruise in.
                                     
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                                    • Go Mango

                                      Go Mango Never enough beer...

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                                      3 years ago I entered a late season show at the Speedway, IN Moose lodge. There were only 45 entries and 11 of those were a local VW club.
                                      It was judged by Moose lodge people and they gave top 20 plaques and a huge best of show trophy. Best of show was awarded to the most gaudy looking Harley that I've ever seen, who happened to be a member there. He was parked next to the building by the sign in tables and vendors, and nobody even knew he was in the show, except for his buddies the judges.
                                      I was there with an old friend who has a nut and bolt, rotisserie restored 69 Z-28. Its a numbers matching car, perfect down to the hose clamps.
                                      I got a top 20. The incredibly perfect Z-28 got nothing. And the only motorcycle got best of show. Out of only 45 entries. 20190601_182447.jpg
                                       
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                                      • Kern Dog

                                        Kern Dog I like girls that wiggle FABO Gold Member

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                                        Some people are trophy hunters. The ten dollar gold painted plastic trophy symbolizes a form of acknowledgement that their hard work has been noticed and respected.
                                        It sucks ass to see a substandard car get chosen over a better one.
                                        If you had a decent, true M code Dart and a slant six car with butchered engine mounts and a 383 ....but with the correct seat covers WINS and you get nothing, wouldn't you be pissed?
                                        That was just one example.
                                        When I judged, I tried hard to NOT let my personal opinions enter the decision. I don't like certain colors but if the car had impeccable body and paintwork, I let the quality of the work be the determining factor. I don't care for the pro-street look but if the car has an overall theme that matches (Wide rear tires, skinny fronts, tunnel ram, gauges on the dash, fuel cell) then the car is judged on the quality of the work.
                                        I've awarded slant six and 318 cars over big blocks because the car looked cleaner and better.
                                        A hard category to judge is the "Under construction". You'll often see them as ratty and beat up. How do you pick from rusty and running versus panel damaged and leaking fluids?
                                        I was lucky...I won 1st place in the first car show that I entered! My car had fresh paint, new wheels but the interior wasn't done. The other cars in the "Under Construction" class needed paint. One guy got so pissed that his car wasn't chosen, he whined and whined until the judges peeled a label off of some leftover trophy and handed it to him just to shut him up. He had a 68 Barracuda with shopping cart dings all over....but a new interior.
                                         
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                                        • Go Mango

                                          Go Mango Never enough beer...

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                                          Last month I attended the first annual Eric Scott memorial car show. As these people had no idea what they were doing, they enlisted the help of a very good local car club to provide assistance.
                                          Once again it was judged by people who didn't know what they were doing. I was sitting with my car all day and the judges spent 10-15 minutes looking at the 74 roadrunner next to me. Then they skipped me and the next 5 cars to look at a mustang.
                                          If you're gonna have a show, at least judge all the cars! So out of 65 or so cars entered, I didn't even get top 30. I would be ok with that had they not skipped over my car.
                                          I dont enter shows to win awards. I enter them to hang out with other people that enjoy cars. I admit that I really like awards, but I'm ok either way. Its just nice when my $20 entry fee at least gets my car judged.
                                           
                                        • autoxcuda

                                          autoxcuda Well-Known Member

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                                          What about car shows that don't have judging?

                                          We do one event without judging (Show and Shine) and another 2-day show where one day no judging and 2nd day judging available if you choose.

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                                          • RustyRatRod

                                            RustyRatRod I was born on a Monday. Not last Monday. FABO Gold Member

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                                            So, what do you do if the majority of people who show up to said car show ARE members of said club that's sponsoring the show? That's normally how it is around here. But then, even if Vixen was show worthy, I would not enter into any shows. I prefer the cruise in type activities.
                                             
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