Slant Six Points Ignition Trouble

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Rakers_SS

Rakers_SS

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Hello everyone! Well, I finally have myself an Abody mopar! I picked up a '71 Duster with the 225 a few days ago. And now the fun begins! I'm new to old mopars, I had a 2015 charger RT but sold it 8 months ago, and have had a 2011 Camaro SS that I've worked on with my dad. I've never worked on points ignition but overall it makes sense. My duster has fuel but no spark, and going through the wiring I thought I'd solved it when I finally got power to the coil but that quickly vanished when i tried to start the car and the ballast resistor was scalding hot to the touch... I'm sure there's some wiring wrong somewhere, but I'm having trouble finding a diagram for points ignition wiring, everything seems to show electronic (maybe its a sign...). Does anyone have a generic wiring diagram for points ignition with the ballast resistor they could share? Switching to electronic will be my last resort, trying to keep this low buck if possible. Appreciate the help!
 
Perfectly normal for the ballast to be hot as it drops 12V to about 8. Where do you have the points set?
 
RustyRatRod said:
Perfectly normal for the ballast to be hot as it drops 12V to about 8. Where do you have the points set?
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Ok, good to know. Thanks! Is hot enough that it could burn me normal? after I tried it i was only getting about .5VDC from the other side of the resistor. I believe the points are set at .020
 
Rakers_SS said:
Ok, good to know. Thanks! Is hot enough that it could burn me normal? after I tried it i was only getting about .5VDC from the other side of the resistor. I believe the points are set at .020
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Yes, hot enough to burn you is normal. 5V sounds a little low. .020 for the points is about right, but "believe" is a little shakey. I would double check the points with a dwell meter. Should be 40-45 degrees on the meter.
 
Make sure you have a good condenser . No spark could be that if the points are set right and you have power to the coil.Could also be the coil
 
It would help if you had a factory service manual (1971 Plymouth) or even the Haynes manual for Dodge Dart/Plymouth Valiant Slant Six. It would explain the wiring, the ignition settings, and basic troubleshooting.
 
NEVER leave the key on "run" for very long when engine is stopped. Points must be low resistance. Most any old "dwell/ tach" has a points resistance scale. I'd have to look this up seems to me you want less than 1/2 volt across closed set of points with key "in run."

Folks above are right--you must have a good "functional" condenser / capacitor to get spark. Don't discount the coil could be bad / shorted.

Make certain points are actually breaking the circuit. In my lifetime I've seen at least two distributor primary wires "rub raw" through the distributor hole and short the wire to ground, and still others (where "others" had changed their points) that the condenser lead/ insulator/ etc was grounded at the points

I NEVER used to set gap--only by dwell---this keeps the possiblility of an oily feeler gauge out of the mix, and is way more accurate. Set dwell / gap before timing. Points gap affects timing.

When you check spark, use the key to crank and not by jumpering the starter relay. This is because in "start" with the key, you are bypassing the coil resistor and it gives a hotter spark. To check, "rig" a spark gap device with a solid core coil wire Should get at least 3/8 nice snappy hot blue spark and typically more like 1/2" long

Go over to MyMopar. Download a service manual or two free. You don't have to sign up.
 
Rakers_SS said:
Hello everyone! Well, I finally have myself an Abody mopar! I picked up a '71 Duster with the 225 a few days ago. And now the fun begins! I'm new to old mopars, I had a 2015 charger RT but sold it 8 months ago, and have had a 2011 Camaro SS that I've worked on with my dad. I've never worked on points ignition but overall it makes sense. My duster has fuel but no spark, and going through the wiring I thought I'd solved it when I finally got power to the coil but that quickly vanished when i tried to start the car and the ballast resistor was scalding hot to the touch... I'm sure there's some wiring wrong somewhere, but I'm having trouble finding a diagram for points ignition wiring, everything seems to show electronic (maybe its a sign...). Does anyone have a generic wiring diagram for points ignition with the ballast resistor they could share? Switching to electronic will be my last resort, trying to keep this low buck if possible. Appreciate the help!
Click to expand...
Points ignition Are useless as a used condom they’re worthless. get you a perTronics conversion kit for that distributor you won’t regret it I promise. But if you insist on going with points you can get a paper print off of the wiring diagram for about 10 bucks on ebay.
 
Some of you guys make it sound as if it's impossible to actually drive a vehicle if you are "unlucky" enough to have brearker points. Maybe I should remind a few of you that this country --and hell the rest of the world--went zillions of miles on breaker equipped ignition systems. At 72, having first started driving around 1965, I simply don't remember "very many times" that a set of points left me helpless on the side of the road.

I don't necessarily mean to recommend that you KEEP them if you keep the car, just that IT ACTUALLY IS POSSIBLE to run and drive "points" system for awhile.
 
67Dart273 said:
Some of you guys make it sound as if it's impossible to actually drive a vehicle if you are "unlucky" enough to have brearker points. Maybe I should remind a few of you that this country --and hell the rest of the world--went zillions of miles on breaker equipped ignition systems. At 72, having first started driving around 1965, I simply don't remember "very many times" that a set of points left me helpless on the side of the road.

I don't necessarily mean to recommend that you KEEP them if you keep the car, just that IT ACTUALLY IS POSSIBLE to run and drive "points" system for awhile.
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I agree they work, but why keep them if you can have a 20 minute EI conversion that doesnt need constant tune up! I prefer hassle free but to each his own! This is just my opinion!
 
I agree. But to start converting "a bunch of stuff" when you are already having trouble, is asking for more trouble many times. "Fix what is there" which should not take much
 
I would take the cap off and have someone else turn the engine over to make sure the rotor is turning. They have a plastic gear on the end that is known to break.
 
Thanks to everyone for the help and advice! In searching through here and mymopar I was able to find a couple of wiring diagrams that should get me on the right track. I'm going to give it a shot tomorrow and see what I can make happen, ordered some wire to fix all the splices that have been done under the hood. I bought the car with everything to do a magnum swap minus the motor so that is the long term plan, the old man convinced me I should stick to getting the points working just as a learning experience. Thanks again for all the help! I'll keep everyone updated on this thread.
 
I completely disagree points are a constant hassle. It's simply not true. Yes, they wear and require replacement. If you don't want points, change to electronic, but those spreading incorrect information need to stuff it.
 
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Rakers_SS said:
Thanks to everyone for the help and advice! In searching through here and mymopar I was able to find a couple of wiring diagrams that should get me on the right track. I'm going to give it a shot tomorrow and see what I can make happen, ordered some wire to fix all the splices that have been done under the hood. I bought the car with everything to do a magnum swap minus the motor so that is the long term plan, the old man convinced me I should stick to getting the points working just as a learning experience. Thanks again for all the help! I'll keep everyone updated on this thread.
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Did you download the 2 page diagram or the factory service manual? They are on separate pages of the same website.
 
Also, you may have rust or build up at the place of your points/contact. Simply rubbing with a small nail file (or thin sand paper) can surprisingly make a huge difference between having spark and no spark at all (if it’s corroded).
 
RustyRatRod said:
I completely disagree points are a constant hassle. It's simply not true. Yes, they wear and require replacement. If you don't want points, change to electronic, but those spreading incorrect information need to stuff it.
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Opinion duly noted...
 
Road/Rage said:
I agree they work, but why keep them if you can have a 20 minute EI conversion that doesnt need constant tune up! I prefer hassle free but to each his own! This is just my opinion!
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I ran Mopar points for at least 2 years and then another 4 on a Mallory dual point on a Cleveland and I never touched them. I ran an MSD and that ***** left me stranded twice! 2nd time I reached for the points distributor in the trunk and it got me home. ECU's can fail, pick-ups can fail, grounds can become loose...and these are not things you can hot wire to get home let alone diagnose on side of road. Knocking points is like knocking carbs...and plenty still choose to run a carb over EFI.
 
pishta said:
I ran Mopar points for at least 2 years and then another 4 on a Mallory dual point on a Cleveland and I never touched them. I ran an MSD and that ***** left me stranded twice! 2nd time I reached for the points distributor in the trunk and it got me home. ECU's can fail, pick-ups can fail, grounds can become loose...and these are not things you can hot wire to get home let alone diagnose on side of road. Knocking points is like knocking carbs...and plenty still choose to run a carb over EFI.
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Points are for girls and bernie voters!
 
Road/Rage said:
The diagram is what i have!
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"The diagram" does not describe

What I'm trying to get at is that MyMopar has multiple pages just like most websites. One page hosts the AFTERMARKET 2 page diagrams which are NOT factory diagrams, leave OUT some details, but are sometimes easier to follow

The factory wiring diagrams are ONLY in the factory service manuals which also exist on that site. These are generally more detailed and mostly more accurate. There are a few mistakes here and there. For some years around 68-9 there's a mistake where the start wire feeds through the bulkhead and is interposed with the horn feed. That is easy to figure.
 
I'm a guy and I voted for Reagan.....I dont think a Bernie supporter is old enough to know what a Kettering ignition is. :p
 
RustyRatRod said:
I completely disagree points are a constant hassle. It's simply not true. Yes, they wear and require replacement.
Click to expand...

…which is another way of saying "constant hassle". The thing about points is they never work as well as an electronic system, and they begin deteriorating (wear/burn) the instant you hit the starter after replacing them. Electronic ignition means better combustion (more performance/better driveability/better gas mileage), longer effective spark plug life, and less maintenance. Win/win/win.

Read this (complete with cool old Plymouth ad and Chrysler Corp publicity video).

Also read this and this and this (featuring Gus Wilson and the Model Garage).

Points ignitions work, but they're inferior. That's not misinformation, that's just fact. There is a reason why you almost never see a car stalled on the side of the road any more. There's a reason why service bays have given way to C-stores at gas stations. It's because cars don't need near as much fiddlefutzing under the hood (on schedule and at random) as they used to. Electronic ignition gave things a hard shove in that direction.
 
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