Some one ask so I tried to explain in a PM. Rocker oiling

Oldmanmopar

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  1. Here is what I sent him so I copied and posted it here

  2. There is a hole in the block right above the head bolt The head has a hole in it drilled at and angle leading to the head bolt hole.

  3. The factory bolts are narrower below the head of the bolt and above the threads
    So the oil flows up along side the head bolt to the top of the head. Then it exits out of the head bolt hole in the head through another hole drilled at an angle that leads to the underside of the rocker shaft.

    The factory bolt is much narrower then the stud and many times it is not in the exact center. This may close of the hole entrance at the top or bottom.
    That is the reason for putting a passage in the stud. It insures sufficient oil to the rocker assembly.

    Now you will have guys that say they are getting oil. and it is possible if the stud is in the center or on the opposite side of the feed hole. But how much oil flow do they have at RPMs when you need it .
    dscn0187-jpg.1715920472

    Notice in the picture above the hole under the head stud ,

    Then in the the picture below the step in the bolts where they narrow above the theads and below the head of the bolt . This allows feed. The longer bolts are the feed bolts you only have one per side that feeds the rockers

    008555_v1_1.jpg


    On the studs pictured below there is no step down at all . So this restricts the flow. That is why we put a passage in the stud.

    Even with the passage in the stud they are still stronger then the Diameter of the base of the thread cut. We had no problem with the integrity.

    upload_2022-4-30_20-24-3-jpeg.1715920484
 

Bakerlite

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Even with the passage in the stud they are still stronger then the Diameter of the base of the thread cut. We had no problem with the integrity.
upload_2022-4-30_20-24-3-jpeg.1715920484

How did if affect the stretch characteristics if the stud?
 

Oldmanmopar

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How did if affect the stretch characteristics if the stud?
Torqued to the same spec as required per ARP. There is no instructions for stretch specification for these studs , As stated there is less material at the base of the threads then what is left after being cut out of the shaft. This was all done to our original studs at a performance engine shop around 2007. We never had and issue and my son has been using this method on every studded LA small block in his shop. There are many other methods but the cost is a lot more, for example here is one I have seen to correct oiling. Great system but didn't want to go that route. Just something else to leak externally

1715342439.jpg
 

413

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Doesn’t the stock small blocks oil through the rocker arm bolts? The FSM Says so. Page 9-43 1970 Plymouth manual.

You did not specify the engine is stock or aftermarket parts. Creating confusion, then the photo with aluminum heads. What engine oils the rockers thought the head bolts? Aftermarket racing block/heads?

201FD7E6-E15D-4864-BB1D-E58885104C53.jpeg


94CB4BA2-45D7-4912-9751-1FA595EC23DC.jpeg
 

cookietruck

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Doesn’t the stock small blocks oil through the rocker arm bolts? The FSM Says so. Page 9-43 1970 Plymouth manual.

it does, and for the oil to get to the rocket stand is runs through the deck and then turns and goes through the hole for the head bolt, then another turn and it gets to the rocker stand.
 

MOPAROFFICIAL

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Let's add the oil timing as the cam journals line up to pulse the oil to the rockers.
Some worry about too much oil to the top 'a more typical chevy woe'.. you can make a decision to use full groove mains and that will up the ratio of bottom vs top priority.
Some used to clock the cam bearings off a hair ..that's all 3.. but incorporate a full grooved cam journal as does Rubens cams who grinds for a handful of brand names...or simply offset grind the cam bearings feed to keep full oiling to the journal yet still limit supply to the top. Many rocker arms and their different diameter oil feeds and locations..mostly remedied by the , again.. by the usage if a full grooved rocker bore.
As for the oil supply at the head.. if aluminum..use a small long triangle file the make a tiny groove up to it if need be.
 

pishta

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Notice long bolts have reduced shanks for oil clearance. These are in the for sale section.

img_4228-jpg.jpg
 

Bakerlite

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Let's add the oil timing as the cam journals line up to pulse the oil to the rockers.
Some worry about too much oil to the top 'a more typical chevy woe'.. you can make a decision to use full groove mains and that will up the ratio of bottom vs top priority.
Some used to clock the cam bearings off a hair ..that's all 3.. but incorporate a full grooved cam journal as does Rubens cams who grinds for a handful of brand names...or simply offset grind the cam bearings feed to keep full oiling to the journal yet still limit supply to the top. Many rocker arms and their different diameter oil feeds and locations..mostly remedied by the , again.. by the usage if a full grooved rocker bore.
As for the oil supply at the head.. if aluminum..use a small long triangle file the make a tiny groove up to it if need be.
I've converted them to full time oiling as well as oiling up through a ball and ball pushrod like other makes do. You can block off the timed feeds from the cam if you use these methods and you don't have to mill the stud either.
 
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Oldmanmopar

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I've converted them to full time oiling as well as oiling up through a ball and ball pushrod like other makes do. You can block off the timed feeds from the cam if you use these methods and you don't have to mill the stud either.
That does work. The problem I had , Was with high lift roller cams and higher seat pressure springs, combined with the terrible pushrod angle due to relocated push rod holes in the head. The push rods gulled at the top. I realize a mild engine with standard style heads are easier and there are many other ways to oil the rockers .

This method my son uses learning from our engine build is the easiest and cheapest route for customer built engines requiring studs. Customers but not all pick or bring the parts for their engines. My son is only liable to oil the parts they choose. This is an across the board way to get oil up top without reinventing the wheel on every build.

He now has a lifter bore truing fixture for big and small block Chevy and mopars plus Hemi and Pontiac. We have some blocks here with oil problems due to lifter oil galley holes to low or oval in the block even with the new roller lifters on some big blocks. Also truing the bores helps oiling due to lifter holes being to ovaled and leaking past the side . Truing them really increases the HP putting the lifters all in the correct timed position. All his Engines stay together for complete seasons.

The track inspector for a local oval track who also is a parts supplier just told my son yesterday that one of his engines just broke the record lap time. Also 2nd and 3rd were cars with his engines. His race engines of all types already have very good reputations and bringing new customers from Diesels to Nitro

So that said I trust what he does.
 

fishmarket

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It's easier to simply grind a small groove inside the head bolt hole up to the oil hole with a burr, then you don't compromise the integrity of the stud as well. It literally takes 30 seconds to do.
 

Oldmanmopar

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It's easier to simply grind a small groove inside the head bolt hole up to the oil hole with a burr, then you don't compromise the integrity of the stud as well. It literally takes 30 seconds to do.
The stud is not compromised . It is far beyond proven with all that were already done here. with very high compression race engines.
Also as stated some of the LA heads he installs are up to $4000.00 bare and he will not grind on customers high dollar parts. He supplies the fasteners and he has confidence in this modification from doing this on several engines at the other shop he worked at for 8 years and now in his own shop for over 7.
This is not a trial he is doing it with success for several years. I thought I would share the info. If you would rather grind the head being cast or aluminum with a grinder or any other method. Have at it.

If you look close at the stud you can see the weak area is at the base of the threads. years ago when Dave at HTA machine originally did this he checked on an old stud to see if it would torque as stated above . He went way over the recommended torque and the weak spot was the thread area.
 

gzig5

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Torqued to the same spec as required per ARP. There is no instructions for stretch specification for these studs , As stated there is less material at the base of the threads then what is left after being cut out of the shaft. This was all done to our original studs at a performance engine shop around 2007. We never had and issue and my son has been using this method on every studded LA small block in his shop. There are many other methods but the cost is a lot more, for example here is one I have seen to correct oiling. Great system but didn't want to go that route. Just something else to leak externally

View attachment 1715920684
The method shown here of feeding the LA head's rocker shaft off the oil pressure port is not to "correct" any oiling deficiency, or maybe it is. This method is done so you can use LA heads on a Magnum block that is not drilled for LA shaft oiling coming off the cam journals. There is NO oil going to the shaft in this Magnum/LA case and you have to use oil through pushrods/rockers and hope that the rockers will provide oil to the shaft. The modification shown bypasses the pushrod oiling requirement and allows use of standard LA rockers that oil through the shaft. With a standard LA block/LA head setup, there is no reason to do this external feed modification, other than you want to.
 

Bakerlite

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That does work. The problem I had , Was with high lift roller cams and higher seat pressure springs.
That's when I tend to use it, I must be lucky, it's always worked fine for me.
 

Oldmanmopar

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The method shown here of feeding the LA head's rocker shaft off the oil pressure port is not to "correct" any oiling deficiency, or maybe it is. This method is done so you can use LA heads on a Magnum block that is not drilled for LA shaft oiling coming off the cam journals. There is NO oil going to the shaft in this Magnum/LA case and you have to use oil through pushrods/rockers and hope that the rockers will provide oil to the shaft. The modification shown bypasses the pushrod oiling requirement and allows use of standard LA rockers that oil through the shaft. With a standard LA block/LA head setup, there is no reason to do this external feed modification, other than you want to.
Yes I already knew that . This is how Indy recommended how we should get oil to the sprayers in valve covers. The picture was a reference that there are different methods to get oil up top.

There are many ways to get oil to the top. I didn't have pictures of or I would have posted them for you.

Another way is to have a funnel mounted to the dash with a hose,

Or a squirt gun through a hole in the firewall.

I was thinking of putting oil in the washer bottle and using the foot pump. but what would I do with a 4spd car. Ah! I could hit the foot pump between gears.

How about mounting an oil can to the hood and using the dripper method like on a hit and miss or we could just fill the engine up to the top of the valve cover.

Since most of you have it figured out you don't need any input at all. Just follow brandon's way, He'll lead you to happiness no matter what gender you choose.

And who said you couldn't feed oil to the rockers on an LA using this method I pictured. I have seen it done. This is just one of many applications. Must be yours.
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mages?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ982V3nXGeLDqTKY1UEgM-EAAeu1VcpCpASnsCpzPdost6tIGDvVz5YotqmSQ5Z72JpGY&usqp=CAU.jpg
 

TurboGLH

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I've converted them to full time oiling as well as oiling up through a ball and ball pushrod like other makes do. You can block off the timed feeds from the cam if you use these methods and you don't have to mill the stud either.

Same, full time oiling with a .063 restrictor. I could have gone smaller too, tons of oil to the heads.
I
also machined new 1/8 holes in the cam bearings at the old 12 o'clock position. Flipped them 180deg at install, that blocked the old feed holes for the heads and restricted oiling to the cam.
 

Oldmanmopar

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Same, full time oiling with a .063 restrictor. I could have gone smaller too, tons of oil to the heads.
I
also machined new 1/8 holes in the cam bearings at the old 12 o'clock position. Flipped them 180deg at install, that blocked the old feed holes for the heads and restricted oiling to the cam.
What heads were you using? And what Rocker arms?
 

TurboGLH

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What heads were you using? And what Rocker arms?

SM cnc heads, prw 1.5 stainlesss rockers. Mild mechanical roller (280deg, 242@.050, 0.380 lobe lift) 180lb seat pressure, 470lbs @ .570 lift
 

Oldmanmopar

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SM cnc heads, prw 1.5 stainlesss rockers. Mild mechanical roller (280deg, 242@.050, 0.380 lobe lift) 180lb seat pressure, 470lbs @ .570 lift
I was running W-2 style 1.5 T&D roller rockers with Indy 360-1 heads, 280lb seat pressure. 686 lift. The push rod angle with the offset rockers was really bad. This was street driven and raced for 8 years. The only wear was push rods , and top rings. shift light set a 8000. It made 829 @ 7900 @ the crank


upload_2022-5-4_12-47-51.jpeg



Same engine, We are now going to tall large diameter offset solid roller lifters to straighten the push rods a bit. 7245 conical springs, Titanium retainers and locks. 200lb seat pressure. Valve lift is still 686 . new smith brothers pushrods. Aluminum GRP connecting rods. Ross 13.5 pistons. super light weight knife edged crank.
 

Bakerlite

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Same, full time oiling with a .063 restrictor. I could have gone smaller too, tons of oil to the heads.
I also machined new 1/8 holes in the cam bearings at the old 12 o'clock position. Flipped them 180deg at install, that blocked the old feed holes for the heads and restricted oiling to the cam.
We must be twins !! LOL.
 

dusterbing the peace

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I was running W-2 style 1.5 T&D roller rockers with Indy 360-1 heads, 280lb seat pressure. 686 lift. The push rod angle with the offset rockers was really bad. This was street driven and raced for 8 years. The only wear was push rods , and top rings. shift light set a 8000. It made 829 @ 7900 @ the crank


View attachment 1715922434


Same engine, We are now going to tall large diameter offset solid roller lifters to straighten the push rods a bit. 7245 conical springs, Titanium retainers and locks. 200lb seat pressure. Valve lift is still 686 . new smith brothers pushrods. Aluminum GRP connecting rods. Ross 13.5 pistons. super light weight knife edged crank.

Care to share duration numbers? Asking for a friend:rolleyes:
 


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