Someone school me on header size.

Mopar Exhaust Systems

  1. doogievlg

    doogievlg Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,117
    Likes Received:
    3558
    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2007
    Location:
    Amelia, Ohio
    Local Time:
    11:55 PM
    i just spoke with a very reputable engine builder about headers for my 360. It is a .30 over 360 with flat tops, undetermined cam, performer rpm intake and Holley 750 dp.

    The builder says if I go smaller than a 1 3/4” header I will be hurting the optimal power output. It looks like TTI makes a 1 5/8” x 1 3/4” stepped header. Would this be what he is referring to?
     
  2. MOPAROFFICIAL

    MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    11,711
    Likes Received:
    11298
    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2016
    Location:
    Oceanside ca.
    Local Time:
    8:55 PM
    He must have in mind some real good heads and a cam that'll wind it over 6000 then.
    The pipe size collector back can really screw you no matter what header primary if it's too small. Go 3" pipes, difference in power between 1 5/8 and 1 3/4 under 6000 rpm with the "average street performance" heads is small.
    My thoughts..
     
  3. roccodart440

    roccodart440 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,504
    Likes Received:
    5748
    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2010
    Local Time:
    11:55 PM
    I think you'll find that those stepped headers will perform just fine for you and won't leave much, if any, on the table.
     
  4. rumblefish360

    rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    44,150
    Likes Received:
    16313
    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2005
    Location:
    Florida
    Local Time:
    11:55 PM
    As a basic description, but not limited to it, header sizes can vary greatly on any engine and have little effect. There is a point of cost vs. return and diminishing returns.

    1-5/8 - Stock to mild street strip.
    1-3/4 - mild street strip to medium strip
    1-7/8 This and larger header primary size from here are pretty much for a strip car on a small block.

    Cubic inch displacement should also be considered. If you have a stroker, every tube size description moves one spot. The 1-3/4 move downward to mild street strip because of the amount of exhaust your moving and how the engine reacts vs. the displacement.

    Collecter size is designed into the header from the manufacturer based on its experience in this field so at one point, they said this header made better power with a 3-1/2 inch instead of a 3 inch.
    Same issue with tube size. But that and all the parameters of a header can be constantly change for what there intended for and debated endlessly.

    TO ANSWER THE TTI QUESTION

    The step header is a bridge between the two tube sizes of a single tube header.
    TTI does (or did?) rate the header for best area of HP output. It would s labeled good for. Example; 575 HP, next header, good for 750 HP

    These are general guidelines. You can use them for more or less power with certain draw backs outside of there general recommendations.

    IMO, it would be an excellent choice to use. Hedman makes a solid single size as well as a stepped header in various tube sizes. I’m not sure if they have what your looking for, but I would cruise the site and browse around there long list of headers to see if they have what you or your engine builder like.
     
  5. Locomotion

    Locomotion Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,388
    Likes Received:
    1107
    Joined:
    May 31, 2004
    Location:
    Florida
    Local Time:
    11:55 PM
    From magazine tests I've seen, the TTI step performs better than regular straight 1 5/8" headers and as well or better than the straight 1 3/4" they tested. Works well in mild applications as well as higher performance. I have them on my Dart Sport and Aspen wagon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • rumblefish360

      rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      44,150
      Likes Received:
      16313
      Joined:
      Jun 21, 2005
      Location:
      Florida
      Local Time:
      11:55 PM
      Good mention locomotion. I have the Hooker Super Comps @ 1-3/4 on my 5.9 in my B body. It’s an OE ‘03 that has only a rpm intake, 600 carb and a older vacuum advance distributor that was chrome box fired. Everyone told me I’d have a huge loss of torque. I felt ZERO difference! and they fit excellent. Zero denting! I alsjust have a set on my E body 4 spd with only minor work to dent a tube to clear the scatter sheild.

      Best header for high performance small block E bodies, though I have not tried the tti headers yet. Though it have no reason to try. As a note, they also require a smiliar clearancing for the scatter shield.
       
    • Locomotion

      Locomotion Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      3,388
      Likes Received:
      1107
      Joined:
      May 31, 2004
      Location:
      Florida
      Local Time:
      11:55 PM
      I found the article. Notes are added with each photo and the dyno chart for all is in the last pic.
      Peak numbers are no where near as important as across the board numbers - "area under the curve".
      TTI has the added benefits of better fit, thicker material, more ground clearance, easier installation and no need for the 90* oil filter adapter over most other headers.

      While this shows a mild 360, mine is race only running as fast as 11.14 @ 117+ in a 3540+ lb car, auto trans & footbraking. I wouldn't use 1 7/8".

      Exhaust on a Mopar 300hp Crate Engine - Tech Articles - Mopar Muscle Magazine
       
      Last edited: Jan 23, 2018
    • rumblefish360

      rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      44,150
      Likes Received:
      16313
      Joined:
      Jun 21, 2005
      Location:
      Florida
      Local Time:
      11:55 PM
      That’s a real chart for my ‘79 Magnum’s ‘03 Magnum I described. The “MASSIVE” lack of torque I was told I’d loose isn’t so bad! Seat of the pants would never let me know. The car was just a cruiser. 3.55’s with 26-1/2 tires.
       
    • crackedback

      crackedback FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      18,537
      Likes Received:
      4049
      Joined:
      Aug 7, 2005
      Location:
      92201
      Local Time:
      8:55 PM
      Dougs will be about 5hp behind a set of tti's on a 360 with 440hp and that is really about it.

      The hookers are worse than the Dougs and don't fit for crap.

      We saw ZERO increase over tti going to a straight 1.75 or 1.875 header. The bigger headers were softer down low and no benefit to the top of the range at ~6K.
       
      • Thanks! Thanks! x 2
      • Like Like x 1
      • MOPAROFFICIAL

        MOPAROFFICIAL FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        11,711
        Likes Received:
        11298
        Joined:
        Jun 1, 2016
        Location:
        Oceanside ca.
        Local Time:
        8:55 PM
        • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
        • Agree Agree x 1
        • 70aarcuda

          70aarcuda Master Hoader of SBM FABO Gold Member Legendary Member

          Messages:
          16,640
          Likes Received:
          5508
          Joined:
          Jan 16, 2005
          Location:
          las vegas
          Local Time:
          8:55 PM
          You should have sold me those TTi 1 7/8 for half of what you paid for them....LOL
           
        • crackedback

          crackedback FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

          Messages:
          18,537
          Likes Received:
          4049
          Joined:
          Aug 7, 2005
          Location:
          92201
          Local Time:
          8:55 PM
          You aren't at 440hp. LOL
           
        • doogievlg

          doogievlg Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          8,117
          Likes Received:
          3558
          Joined:
          Nov 13, 2007
          Location:
          Amelia, Ohio
          Local Time:
          11:55 PM
          Thanks for all the input.

          I can not find a single 1 3/4 header for an abody. Everything is either 1 5/8” stepped to 1 3/4” or 1 7/8”. Am I missing something
           
        • 70aarcuda

          70aarcuda Master Hoader of SBM FABO Gold Member Legendary Member

          Messages:
          16,640
          Likes Received:
          5508
          Joined:
          Jan 16, 2005
          Location:
          las vegas
          Local Time:
          8:55 PM
          Look for Hooker 5204
           
          • Agree Agree x 1
          • rumblefish360

            rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

            Messages:
            44,150
            Likes Received:
            16313
            Joined:
            Jun 21, 2005
            Location:
            Florida
            Local Time:
            11:55 PM
            TTI has the stepped 1-5/8 - 1-3/4.
            Hooker has the straight 1-3/4.
            (Thank you Tony!)
            Perhaps Hedman has it as well. I’m pretty sure they do. It has been a while since I have been at there site.
             
          • doogievlg

            doogievlg Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            8,117
            Likes Received:
            3558
            Joined:
            Nov 13, 2007
            Location:
            Amelia, Ohio
            Local Time:
            11:55 PM
            Any experience with these on a power steering car?
             
            Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
          • 68Dart500

            68Dart500 Well-Known Member

            Messages:
            358
            Likes Received:
            234
            Joined:
            Oct 24, 2017
            Location:
            USA
            Local Time:
            10:55 PM
            I think 1 5/8 would be fine for your application. My 408 made 485 hp and 511 torque with 1 5/8 headers on the dyno.
             
            • Like Like x 1
            • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
            • Agree Agree x 1
            • doogievlg

              doogievlg Well-Known Member

              Messages:
              8,117
              Likes Received:
              3558
              Joined:
              Nov 13, 2007
              Location:
              Amelia, Ohio
              Local Time:
              11:55 PM
              How do I go to battle with a well known mopar engine builder over this?

              “Hey man I know you have built thousands of wallet winning engines over the year and dyno tested countless small blocks but my buddies online say to use a different set”
               
              • Like Like x 1
              • rumblefish360

                rumblefish360 I have escaped the evil Empire State! FABO Gold Member

                Messages:
                44,150
                Likes Received:
                16313
                Joined:
                Jun 21, 2005
                Location:
                Florida
                Local Time:
                11:55 PM
                Well, quoting internet ding dongs no matter how true it is what they say is going to go down in flames with any “Live” person. You would have to be delicate in delivery and express not just belief but trust in persons here. Pointing out frequency of the persons in there honest no nonsense replies as well as there honesty in not just what they claim to know but there forthright been there and done it story as well as those that say up front, “I don’t know.”

                With no offense to @MOPAROFFICAL, @crackedback or @69dart500 (because your still brand new here though your posts on subjects are not in question in anyway shape or form.)

                All the above posters I would believe and the most to place trust in for reasons at the end of this are;

                @Locomotion; as he is a drag race competitor and multi time champ so, as he says, “In my particular combo!” He writes his post. He tells you what works and what didn’t “in his particular application.”
                I don’t think Myron will mind a plug right about now!
                Locomotion Racing - IHRA Stock Eliminator 1975 Dodge Dart Sport

                @70aarcuda AKA TONY Is also a drag racer with several cars campaigning. He shows his builds right here and as close to real time drag slips as possible. He reports the days drag strip runs from victory to part failure.
                While To y doesn’t have a web site as far as I know..... lick here for his profile page and scroll down and around. Look up threads he started. There you can find his transparency in his threads.
                70aarcuda

                Both guys are straight up people and offer the best out of all of us true proof of there words. Because if you look them up here at the site, they leave behind a heck of a trail of bread crumbs of no nonsense posts. Information that can be tracked down and in the books of record keeping at the tracks they race.

                How’s that for proof?

                My other compadres have been here for years. I can see who is smart and who is a smart ass. I give them a thumbs up all the way. Even if we don’t agree and throw spit balls at each other.
                (Like siblings do! LMAO!)

                Now! Lastly but not least in anything,
                68dart500 is a new guy that is transparent with this awesome thread. Not knowing what would happen, he started this thread. So he is upfront and honest. Check it out;
                408 Build- Guess the HP/TQ (Dyno Results in 3 weeks)
                 
                Last edited: Jan 24, 2018
                • Like Like x 1
                • doogievlg

                  doogievlg Well-Known Member

                  Messages:
                  8,117
                  Likes Received:
                  3558
                  Joined:
                  Nov 13, 2007
                  Location:
                  Amelia, Ohio
                  Local Time:
                  11:55 PM
                  There are plenty more on this forum that have been around along time and whose work I have seen go from trash to amazing on here. I would trust many members here to work on my car which says a lot considering this is the first time someone else has touched it in 13 years.

                  I wanted to let the builder make all the calls and not be a burden at all but this may be the issue I get stubborn about. I’m done dealing with the flange on hooker headers and the tti doesn’t seem like it will kill the power that he is worried about.
                   
                • yellow rose

                  yellow rose Overnight Sensation

                  Messages:
                  28,501
                  Likes Received:
                  25219
                  Joined:
                  Jun 19, 2015
                  Location:
                  Central Washington
                  Local Time:
                  8:55 PM

                  That's the bummer. 5204's don't fit with PS.
                   
                  • Agree Agree x 2
                  • Like Like x 1
                  • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
                  • Killer6

                    Killer6 Well-Known Member

                    Messages:
                    3,415
                    Likes Received:
                    1455
                    Joined:
                    Mar 9, 2015
                    Location:
                    PA
                    Local Time:
                    10:55 PM
                    I've posted before, but in a nutshell, the T/A heads I did were on an AAR w/a 6bbl, 292 Purple Shaft, 9.5" converter, full street car with only slicks mounted for the track.
                    With a set of off the shelf Heddman 1 5/8" jobs & 3" pipes with turndowns at the axle, it ran a best of 12.35@109mph,...shifting~7200...I don't see Your needing more than
                    that, and the drive-around torque will be sooo nice!
                     
                    • Like Like x 2
                    • Agree Agree x 1
                    • doogievlg

                      doogievlg Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      8,117
                      Likes Received:
                      3558
                      Joined:
                      Nov 13, 2007
                      Location:
                      Amelia, Ohio
                      Local Time:
                      11:55 PM
                      Sounds like a killer engine.
                       
                    • doogievlg

                      doogievlg Well-Known Member

                      Messages:
                      8,117
                      Likes Received:
                      3558
                      Joined:
                      Nov 13, 2007
                      Location:
                      Amelia, Ohio
                      Local Time:
                      11:55 PM
                      Then that sorts it out. I couldn’t find anything else that was 1 3/4”
                       
                      • Like Like x 1
                      • mbaird

                        mbaird mbaird

                        Messages:
                        8,771
                        Likes Received:
                        5672
                        Joined:
                        Dec 10, 2005
                        Location:
                        boise, Id
                        Local Time:
                        9:55 PM
                        Without knowing what cam you are running or the intended use of the car its hard to say what the effect would be.
                        Unless its a fully ported motor running a wild cam you wont notice the difference and it would have to be tuned to a nats ass to make a difference on a mild (400hp or under) motor. Big tubes might even hurt your performance on a mild street car.
                         
                      1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
                        By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.