I guess I should take Jpars advice and not waste mine or your time. Thanks. Ohh and by the way everything I did was simple, very simple. The valve job would be recommended to have done by an expert if you so desired.
Speedmaster Small block porting tips and results Part 1
- Thread starter pittsburghracer
- Start date
-
PRH
Well-Known Member
No one is saying anyone “has to” do anything to their heads.
But some want to have them be better than they come ootb.
This is how they get a feel for what to do, how long it takes, and what you can expect for results for the effort....... or if you’re not inclined to do it yourself.....what you’d get beck from a shop that you had do it for you.
When I do this type of small clean-up job I don’t usually bother testing them ootb.
They get the whole job done, then I test one pair of ports, and iiwii.
I test them ootb when it’s something I haven’t had in the shop before, to see what they flow like, so I can gauge how effective the rework is.
For what I’m assuming “most” people are going to be doing with these heads....... I think the non-cnc version and having the valve job redone, back cut valves, bowls blended..... vs buying the cnc version and running them ootb..... if those are the two options for your $$$....... I think the reworked non-cnc version would make more power on the typical hot street/street-strip build that a lot of these heads will end up on.
I’ll go one step further........ it might be better to buy them bare and have them prepped with the 2.055 intake valves.
“IMO”, the low and mid-lift flow on the ootb cnc head is so low I can’t see how anyone who is looking to take advantage of the potential of that porting and port volume........would not seriously think about having the valve job fixed.
It’s a 25cfm improvement on the intake side right where it counts.
Now..... back to your regularly scheduled PBR thread.....
But some want to have them be better than they come ootb.
This is how they get a feel for what to do, how long it takes, and what you can expect for results for the effort....... or if you’re not inclined to do it yourself.....what you’d get beck from a shop that you had do it for you.
When I do this type of small clean-up job I don’t usually bother testing them ootb.
They get the whole job done, then I test one pair of ports, and iiwii.
I test them ootb when it’s something I haven’t had in the shop before, to see what they flow like, so I can gauge how effective the rework is.
For what I’m assuming “most” people are going to be doing with these heads....... I think the non-cnc version and having the valve job redone, back cut valves, bowls blended..... vs buying the cnc version and running them ootb..... if those are the two options for your $$$....... I think the reworked non-cnc version would make more power on the typical hot street/street-strip build that a lot of these heads will end up on.
I’ll go one step further........ it might be better to buy them bare and have them prepped with the 2.055 intake valves.
“IMO”, the low and mid-lift flow on the ootb cnc head is so low I can’t see how anyone who is looking to take advantage of the potential of that porting and port volume........would not seriously think about having the valve job fixed.
It’s a 25cfm improvement on the intake side right where it counts.
Now..... back to your regularly scheduled PBR thread.....
Last edited:
j par
Well-hung Member
That's funny turn the whole Forum against me LOL... I was actually hoping you would take more time and get more specific and exact as none of us have the tools or the flow bench like you do.. if we weren't grinding in the correct spot and doing the correct things we would have no way of testing it?... Grind on the ceiling for how long was how much? The short turn still haven't figured out quite what that is... No pictures with arrows?..
j par
Well-hung Member
Been home-porting my heads for well over 20 years. Only way I have to test is "before and after" ET slip comparisons. 3-4 tenth drop is what I usually shoot for. Not sure I get every spot right, and I also port on the conservative side (not removing too much). Always just looked for modest gains.
j par
Well-hung Member
see that's it without a flow bench you're basically sticking a certain size socket in the hole LOL and using a measuring device on the openings... I would think the only way to get the stuff extremely even is with a flow bench...
mindlessly grinding away for days is not my thing and even PBR doesn't do it for anybody else because it's not fun... maybe having a little fun with the speedmasters because it's new to him but the Lester will wear off fast I'm sure...
j par
Well-hung Member
Also if I wanted three or four tenths difference I would just switch to Holley's...
...
Honestly, the most effective tool I use is my eye. I just use things like the sockets for "before and after" comparisons. Truth be told, I picture myself a volume of air being forced through the port at a high rate of speed, and I just do to the port what would make me more comfortable going through there....
as I'm about to switch to a pair of eddy carbsAlso if I wanted three or four tenths difference I would just switch to Holley's...
:
Last edited:
a free 3 tenths that never wears out ….Also if I wanted three or four tenths difference I would just switch to Holley's...
How much would a person normally pay for that improvement???
Are you serious ? How long have you been into performance cars ? You obviously are relying on the net to provide you with on hands experience for performance parts and how to hotrod. lol There have been countless tech articles and how to's in magazines over the past 50 years.
I've learned a lot from magazines/ books over the years. You might try to pick one up sometime.
j par
Well-hung Member
You'd be shocked at how well-read I am and not magazines LOL... With pictures LOL.. have you read the original Mary Shelley's Frankenstein? Have you read The Great Gatsby?.. don't make me go on and don't try to insult me by saying I don't read... And stop assuming that I get all my hot writing from the internet...Are you serious ? How long have you been into performance cars ? You obviously are relying on the net to provide you with on hands experience for performance parts and how to hotrod. lol There have been countless tech articles and how to's in magazines over the past 50 years.
I've learned a lot from magazines/ books over the years. You might try to pick one up sometime.
..
Ouch …. hit a sliver, sorry.Are you serious ? How long have you been into performance cars ? You obviously are relying on the net to provide you with on hands experience for performance parts and how to hotrod. lol There have been countless tech articles and how to's in magazines over the past 50 years.
I've learned a lot from magazines/ books over the years. You might try to pick one up sometime.
Nope carry on with your work.
You know what your doing because you've learned " How To " trial and error over the past 50 years.
Well done Sir !
j par
Well-hung Member
Exactly! That's how I've done it trial and error.. this cam that cam.. these tires those tires... These carbs those carbs.. these heads those heads.. this cage no cage... Wait a minute my headers are here those headers these headers...
I assume nothing. and I am self taught with the help of mags , books and trial and error.You'd be shocked at how well-read I am and not magazines LOL... With pictures LOL.. have you read the original Mary Shelley's Frankenstein? Have you read The Great Gatsby?.. don't make me go on and don't try to insult me by saying I don't read... And stop assuming that I get all my hot writing from the internet...
j par
Well-hung Member
Oh yeah what was the subject Speedmaster porting tips...
Onwards..
Onwards..
NO He is not!!!!!
I know you think this is all fun and games. but your voice is getting so loud that no one can hear the Speaker of this thread.
We Rarely get a thread like this.
Did you notice Ou812 throw in a great bit of info?
We rarely have a thread about porting and when you shoot the messenger, HE DIES!!!!!!
Now i know you didn't get your question answer about all the terms of the port like SSR,PRP,common wall,bowl, exc
But if you keep barking, no one is going to want to give you this info. You have already had one person tell you to go out and search for it yourself! Did you get the Hint.......NO, BARK,BARK BARK!!!!!!!!!!!!
j par
Well-hung Member
I'm not loud I say what's on my mind that's all.. just like you have now. there's nothing stopping him from posting what he wants to post do I do that?.. maybe you should start a petition to get me banned from the forum and saying what I feel like saying here on an open Forum in America... I've learned a lot from what he said.. maybe because I don't bow down and tickle everybody's nuts who has a flow bench and get on the forearm and talk about all their experience?.. maybe you will find hundreds of dollars worth of carburetor parts on the word of someone you've never met but not me...
.. nor will I send my heads across the United States on the words and pictures of what goes on here... 
..And I've said it once I've said it a million times this is all fun and games 110% you know what isn't Fun and Games is our Health and Welfare of our family beyond that this is all just fun and games to play with and it would cost me a lot less money if I just launched my car into the river and stop buying parts for it it's just a hobby for most of us and anybody that I know that's really racing 9 second cars and stuff like that laughs when I tell him I'm on this forum...
j par
Well-hung Member
And yes I'm serious! What I see and what I hear is beginning and end pictures of what was done.. and talk of how and why. Which again is all great reading but I'm not sure I learned anything.. I mean any skill sets that is... It almost needs a video or pictures with arrows pointing out where to and how much to stuff like that...Are you serious ? How long have you been into performance cars ? You obviously are relying on the net to provide you with on hands experience for performance parts and how to hotrod. lol There have been countless tech articles and how to's in magazines over the past 50 years.
I've learned a lot from magazines/ books over the years. You might try to pick one up sometime.
PRH
Well-Known Member
Another unfinished tech thread being filled with blather.
I'm not loud I say what's on my mind that's all.. just like you have now. there's nothing stopping him from posting what he wants to post do I do that?.. maybe you should start a petition to get me banned from the forum and saying what I feel like saying here on an open Forum in America... I've learned a lot from what he said.. maybe because I don't bow down and tickle everybody's nuts who has a flow bench and get on the forearm and talk about all their experience?.. maybe you will find hundreds of dollars worth of carburetor parts on the word of someone you've never met but not me...
And I've said it once I've said it a million times this is all fun and games 110% you know what isn't Fun and Games is our Health and Welfare of our family beyond that this is all just fun and games to play with and it would cost me a lot less money if I just launched my car into the river and stop buying parts for it it's just a hobby for most of us and anybody that I know that's really racing 9 second cars and stuff like that laughs when I tell him I'm on this forum...
If you would reread your posts before you hit the reply button and think of others before doing so you may not always come across as such a dick. Just because something is over your head it may be helping others. But no you won’t so others will suffer as guys stop passing on tech info. Some guys actually have the balls to try new stuff. New stuff to you would be learning to shut your damn mouth. Now do your thing you are best at and hit the disagree button. Lol.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
If that's the case, you can buy the Smokey Yunick book, or the Jenkins book or a David Vizard book and those things are laid out pretty well in those.
If you like reading (and it sounds like you do) and if you can learn from reading (sounds like you can...some people can't read and learn as they are visual learners so you have to learn how you learn, not the way the cookie cutter, production line blow them out the door and get paid for it public education system way of learning) there a literally dozens and dozens of books worth reading.
One of them is the book by Harold Bettes. Can't think of the name of it, but I have it, have read it, many times and will read it again.
I have one of David Vizards books about porting and it has his ideas and experiences of what a port should look like.
There are many SAE papers and stuff out there in the public domain worth reading. I have about 7-8 full length SAE papers on two stroke porting. You can't place a value on that.
Don't forget about cross discipline leading either. For example, reading things about carburetor function benefits both carb and cylinder head knowledge. It goes both ways.
The NASA Technical Reseach Server web site has a HUMONGOUS amount of insane knowledge on it. Unreal what's there. Right now, I'm reading through NACA-TR-49 which was published 1919! Yep...1919 and it is incredible what these men built and tested back then. And you can pretty much say everything we can know about carburation was known before 1919! What a great resource that web site is.
Then you have nature. Want to know how air flows? Look to nature. It's simple really. An example is looking at fallen leave patterns. Where are the leaves and why? Why are there piles of leaves in one spot, and no leaves anywhere else?
The leaves stop where there is NO AIR FLOW. Where there is air flow, the leaves or long gone. Snow follows the same physical patterns. How does that relate to making horsepower? When I get a set of used heads in, the first thing I look at it the chamber burn patterns (one of my favorite things to do is look at the same pattern on the Pistons...and looking at the exhaust ports is fascinating all by itself) and from that you can see where you need to make improvements.
I can't tell you how many times I read (and it's still being published and it's STILL wrong) that any CLEAN area in the chamber or piston top is clean because of "fuel wash". So wrong. Where an area is carbon free, it's because there is ZERO air flow there. No air flow, no fuel in the air, no carbon from combustion.
The trick then is how do you get the full chamber full of air. Text books have been written about that.
If you like to fish (I hate fishing) you can learn a ton about how air ( which has fuel in it) behaves when it encounters obsticles. Watch water move around a rock. Look at water flowing at different speeds (higher or lower test pressures on a flow bench).
Look at how an air plane wing works. The air encountering an airplane wing behaves the same way in a port.
Lots of ways to learn and then apply it to your hobby.
He is a good one. How can an engine be dead rich but have an O2 reading that is normal and even have the spark plug pretty much agree with the O2 sensor?
An exhaust port cannot tell a lie. But an O2 sensor can.
-
