Spitting oil through tailpipes.

Discussion in 'Small Block Mopar Engine' started by Ironmike, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

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    I wanted to say something funny like ;" you should see what comes outta there at 7200!!" But I realized it wasn't pertinent nor made a heck of a lot of sense........ But I couldn't help myself,lol.
     
  2. moper

    moper FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    I've had marks on other cars, walls, the floor (turndowns), other stuff near the exit of the tailpipes... My old cars used to do it, my gas tractor does it, the snowblower does it... "it" happens...lol. A PCV system would help, but won't solve the problem totally. Regardless - no big deal.
     
  3. Ironmike

    Ironmike Well-Known Member

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    I wanted to update this with what I found. Well, it did the same shit all year, finally started to smoke a bit, only when warm.
    I took of the carb and looked down the ports wit my borescope and found every single intake valve covered in black nasty coked up oil, on the back side and halfway up the stem . Shocked. Plugs still look like new.

    Off come the heads. Inside headers are fairly clean and dry. Intake didn't appear to be sucking in oil.
    I made a jig to put pressure into the intake side of heads and found all intakes leaking and also........get ready.....some sort of communication with intake and exhuast.. right where those big 2.08 intakes almost touch the exhaust valves. I believe there's some issue at the seats.

    Whether this is my oil issue or not, I have no clue. My cylinders look like normal. Nice crosshatch still there.........I have to believe ANY ring problem would foul plugs, I hope.

    I just hope that fixing up the heads and restricting oil to the heads can make everything right. My pushrods have an .080 hole.I don't think these old engines were designed to run with the valve seals submerged in oil.

    Just another weird problem I seem to be fated for.
     
  4. RAMM

    RAMM Well-Known Member

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    Still no answer on the ring type. Told you it was consuming it way back there ^^^^. Thanks for the update. J.Rob
     
  5. rustycowll69

    rustycowll69 Well-Known Member

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    I think pressurizing the intake side could give erroneous readings. That side is never subjected to pressure, mostly just vacuum (ok, negative pressure). I would think every head could leak if you put pressure to it like that. That's why I use a vacuum to check to check valve face to seat seal, and valve stem to guide seal.
    Now if you wanted to pressurize the combustion chamber side, I could see that as possibly informative.
    PS This vehicle is normally aspirated, I am presuming, because if it were forced induction then pressurizing the intake would be instructive.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2018
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    • nm9stheham

      nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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      You can get modest oil burning and not see much anything on the plugs.... my old 351C would smoke like crazy at hard throttle when the rings and bores got well worn, but there was not any real change on the plugs. When you see a plug oil fouled, something has really gone downhill.

      The crosshatch is not any particular indicator of a ring oiling issue one way or the other. (If it were oiling mildly, one might actually expect less wear on the bores....)

      It could be something as simple as the 2nd ring flipped upside down and thus not properly scraping the extra oil off.
       
    • Ironmike

      Ironmike Well-Known Member

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      Standard rings. Can't believe I threw 8 in upside down....
      So.....Flooding the heads wouldn't cause this problem?

      I just hate like hell yanking this thing out. .........again.

      Oh yeah I'm only putting 10 to 15 pounds pressure in there.
      20181206_153752.jpg
       
    • Ironmike

      Ironmike Well-Known Member

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      Here's a kind of crappy pic of an intake valve. All 8 look exactly alike. Zoom if ya can.
      20181206_154658.jpg
       
    • nm9stheham

      nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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      I'd certainly not say that it wouldn't.... and yeah understood on the not pulling it again! That DOES look pretty messy on the valve there....
       
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      • rustycowll69

        rustycowll69 Well-Known Member

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        I'm a little surprised at how dirty the oil looks. Is this a carbureted engine? Maybe the upside down ring idea is not so unlikely, or maybe the fuel/air mix is rich enough to be contaminating oil, or maybe a little of both.
        I've never tried it, but I don't think it would be hard to push 15psi past the intake guides. Could you tell where it was "leaking"?
        I can't remember the OP, and am too lazy to look it up, did you do a leak down on this engine?
         
      • Ironmike

        Ironmike Well-Known Member

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        Leaked it early in the spring and all was fine +- 3%. The thing I keep forgetting is the fact this thing has had 3 dyno sessions, Hughes heads, then Bloomers , then the current ones. That's at least 30 dyno pulls and I drove it hard all summer.

        I don't like what I'm thinking. But again, I have over 250 pounds on the seat. Hard to believe 10 or 20 pounds would leak past the valves.
         
      • rustycowll69

        rustycowll69 Well-Known Member

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        if the springs are "square" and the valve faces and seats are absolutely true, then yeah, I agree you shouldn't leak past that kind of seat pressure. I'm thinking your air pressure leakage would more likely occur at the guide. Did you listen for the leakage to determine the source?
         
      • nm9stheham

        nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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        BTW, you mentioned'smoking' late in the season. Under what circumstances, besides warmed up? Idling or WOT or ?
         
      • MOPAROFFICIAL

        MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

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        You think the guides moved and leaked?
        I wouldn't be shocked one bit.
         
      • rustycowll69

        rustycowll69 Well-Known Member

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        I was thinking more along the lines of a loose fit, as in too much clearance on the v. stem/guide, and a passive (umbrella ) type seal.
         
      • MOPAROFFICIAL

        MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

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        Big lift, aluminum head, 1 piece bronze guide, big spring psi... and how long was it run without a geometry kit?
        The rockers just shove the stems, guides over, working them loose.
        I've seen'em where you can grab a pair of Springs already on the head and squeeze them together and see them "stems/guides move, which is a lot if the naked eye can see it.
         
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        • nm9stheham

          nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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          Interesting... that WOULD be a lot. I'd think eventually one or more would move vertically in the head.
           
        • furrystump

          furrystump Well-Known Member

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          so no positive valve seals? Umbrellas? O-rings? Combination? If all the intakes are coated I wouldn’t think it was intake gasket. Unless there is a bunch of reversion.
           
        • Ironmike

          Ironmike Well-Known Member

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          Well I had a couple springs off earlier. Borrowed a buddies removal tool. Viton seals looked ok, couldn't wiggle an open valve at all,. I just assumed the guides were ok.

          Also, I would never even think about putting an engine together without Mike B!s geometry kit.

          My hopes would be that I just put way too big a groove on the lifters and combined with the .080 pushrod hole, oil is just getting sucked through the seals. I'm doubting that though........
           
        • furrystump

          furrystump Well-Known Member

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          A positive seal without sloppy guides leads me to believe you might be right. Flooding the head and because the seals have to allow “some” oil to leak through to oil the guide it is just sucking a bit extra.
           
        • Ironmike

          Ironmike Well-Known Member

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          Ok so now I'm at a crossroads. I have to make a decision. Took the heads to my dyno guy/porter/machinist, and viton seals seemed fine. Guides are still fine. Every damn intake valve caked in oil to about 1/4 inch up the stem. He told me back in September when I left his shop in a hurry it was smoking. Remember my plugs look like damn near new.

          2 reasonable choices for me.

          1. Get pushrods with a restricted hole, maybe .030 instead of the .080 that I have now. Some folks believe you cannot run with the friggin seals submerged under oil. These old cars weren't designed to operate that way. I know for a fact that cruising down the highway at 3300RPM, my valve covers are at least halfway full.

          Choice 2. Do all the above AND yank the motor, hone as minimally as possible, if it needs it, and re ring it.

          I hate the thought of choice 2, but I'd also hate if I fixed the flooding issue, put it all back together and fi d out next spring, it's still using oil.

          My machinist thinks it's all a "too much oil" issue. His number one guy says don't risk it. Heads are already off, it's winter.......pull it and put some new rings in there.

          I need a push in 1 direction or the other.
           
        • MOPAROFFICIAL

          MOPAROFFICIAL Well-Known Member

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          You know what to do. Best of luck.
           
        • rustycowll69

          rustycowll69 Well-Known Member

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          what kind of oil pump are you running? high pressure? high volume? maybe a regular oil pump might help. why doesn't the oil drain out faster? what if you ran an external drain line from a low pt of the valve cover(s) to the pan?
           
        • nm9stheham

          nm9stheham Well-Known Member

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          IMHO... it's winter...check it all out. Take note of the orientation of any bevels on the inside of the rings.

          As above, why does it not drain better? Could be just some work on the existing drain holes would help. Seems like that is a better fix than oil restrictions. You could always swap in differently pushrods later.
           
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          • teringer

            teringer ase master hall of fame

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            a lot of mopar small blocks on circle tracks have the same problem with over oiling with stock heads and can run the sump empty I have added 1 qt extra after finding out the hard way. then the next year added a drain from the rear valve cover to the pan . but like a lot off people I didn't run exhaust seals and never had smoking issues.