Still Too Hot

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pentastarpro

pentastarpro

speed trials
Joined
Oct 25, 2009
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Location
Apple Valley,CA
Looking for experience and advice on bypass hoses.

I have purchased a Champion 3core (thank you challengergary) for my 65 V 200 w/69' 340, X heads, .508/292dur purple stick. I have a Ebrock Performer w/ Holley 4165 and timing at 18 static/32 total. Plugs look perfect. This is a true 10.5cr motor w/170deg thermostat. I have two 9" Derrale fans on back side and NO shroud. After warm-up it still runs at 200-210 while cruising at 25-35mph. Highway temps drop to 180 and are steady. I've added a temporary fan in front of rad with no change in temps.

My question is - could the larger than stock bypass hose be circulating too much coolant around the radiator at lower speeds and creating the increased temps? I have noticed some later water pumps have smaller nipples (restrictors) for the bypass hose than the new direct replacement I have. I used a brass household water heater nipple (3/4") and turned the threads off the flared end so it fit the manifold and hose great. The original manifold nipple had a much smaller passage but was eaten away, hence my replacement.

I am thinking the extra flow through the bypass is causing the heat buildup rather than flowing through the rad. I could try putting a steel spacer/reducer (available at local OSH)inside the rubber hose to reduce flow as they come in various ID sizes.

Has anyone else tackled this issue other than throwing more radiator, shroud, or fans at it?
 
So, what's the worry? It's not overheating.
 
I tried everything I could think of with my cc375. Wouldnt keep my stroked big block cool. Had to go griffin. Champion ***** still in the garage in a box.Some people swear their great but to me just more chinese garbage.
 
You simply don't have enough air flow, and no matter what you do with the bypass it's not going to change the fact.
2-9 inch fans is simply not nearly enough CFM, and barely enough if the whole radiator was shrouded.
 
The temps are not a problem now but I'm guessing in June July and August it will be warmer.. No? You need a shroud and a good clutch fan
 
If I does not move around 4K CFM of airflow, it could be running cooler. That's what most HP street engines need.
 
Airflow x 23.
- Ive been running 205 plus for 15 years. Put an IR gun on it, in several locations.
- Is your vacuum advance working? Can you bump up the timing to say 35ish?
- At those low speeds and light loading, that cam likes a bunch of timing.At least mine did in a 360 @ 11.2c/r. Also had to run a mechanical fan ( 6 blade minimum, small dia.), and a shroud and a thermostatic clutch fan, and a hi-flow pump.
-As to the bypass restriction,I played with it a bit. Didnt make much difference.
- If you want to get an idea of what your current system is capable of, try this; A) remove the stat, and install just the washer part of an old stat, and B)Run just regular water with the W/P additive pkg, and C) Run your fans Full-on. Now run it up to the troublesome roadspeed/rpm, and see whats what.This assumes your rad is in good working condition, and your belt is tight. If its still too hot for you, youre gonna need more flow; either water or air. Since you already know that at higher speeds its ok ( suggesting airflow at low speed is a problem) and,as Ive already been down that road, I suggest air first.If that cures it, you can put a regular stat back in, and roadtest it.Still good? Try it with the coolant you were using. But if still too warm for you, after the direct drive fan goes on, you will need to install a hi-flow pump, and retest. then proceed as before, with stat and coolant.
-I think its worth repeating.That cam at low speeds and light loading, likes a bunch of timing. I think I was running about 44* at 2200rpm. This is only possible with a well tuned vacuum advance can in conjunction with a fast centrifugal advance.I would start there.
-I think its also worth repeating, that your engine may make more power, consume less fuel, and possibly last longer at some higher temperature than the 170* that you are targeting. Like others also have said; 200+ *F is not too hot. Run a good oil, a 13#+ cap, and new hoses, and stomp some brand Xers. Yeah!
-BTW, I dont run that cam anymore. I found it was borderline too big for a stick in a DD.
 
I can tell you that a third fan in front of the radiator isnt helping you. Pushers are not as efficient as pullers, and that fan is probably causing more blockage and turbulent airflow than its worth. A single large fan with a shroud would do worlds better IMO. I messed with pushers and clutch fans for years before a single derale with a shroud answered my prayers.
 
I have a 408 in an Aussie charger and it never runs hot. it is summer over here and we regulary get over 40 degrees C (110F) and it never gets past the half way mark on the guage.I run a new old stock 360 a/c radiator with 14 inch flex fan and shroud. I also run vacuum advance with 30 degrees timing at idle 750rpm. I did find it idled much smoother when I opened the plug gaps up to 60 thou and 35degrees. It has a hughs roller cam with 236 degrees duration @ 50 thou, but drives great since my last effort on tune up.
 
Fans and no shroud will not cool that set up, you proved it by driving the air flow drops the temps. Those fans have little to no air flow with out a shroud to direct the air and they most likely will not cool well with a shroud because they do not pull enough air. I use chevy HHR fan/shroud assembly, $53 on ebay new. Pulls 3000cfm and they flat out work. Make sure it is wired with a relay. They are 21 11/16 wide and 18 3/16 tall and 4 1/16 thick.




http://www.ebay.com/itm/261407998809?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT
 
Do you have a rubber seal on your hood that seals to your radiator support? if you don't have this then hot air makes its way out from under the hood and will be sucked back into the radiator heating up further and the cycle will continue causing your car to run hot. Ask me how I know this. You can try putting a piece of foam pipe insulation in there the seal the foot to the radiator support acid test
 
IMHO, there is far too much emphasis placed on going elecrtric for a streeter.I could offer an explanation on that opinion, but I fear it would fall on deaf ears. For every success story, theres got to be many, many, dissappointed fellows.
 
My setup is not that different then yours, but I am running a stock water pump driven fan and no shroud. This setup keeps my Dart nice and cool!! I am running a 190 thermostat.
 
everyone with old cars worry if temps get obove 200,me included,but our new cars do and we dont bat a eye.i quess its old school thinking.i wouldnt be concerened until 230
 
Thank you for the input, a lot to digest in all of that.
Looks like I am worrying too much about keeping below 200-210*.
Just a few comments:
-too tight to fit high flow fans & shroud (21w,16h,>3.5d).
-current setup spec'd at 2200cfm which was enough to cool a 451 stroker at drags.
-hated to move to electric but will not go back unless it were OEM resto.

I like the comments on trial-and-try, that gives me something to work on.

I will be working on the bypass setup just for my own satisfaction.

Consensus is a shroud is necessary to lower temps.

One thing for sure, I will be posting results.
 
AJ/FormS said:
IMHO, there is far too much emphasis placed on going elecrtric for a streeter.I could offer an explanation on that opinion, but I fear it would fall on deaf ears. For every success story, theres got to be many, many, dissappointed fellows.
Click to expand...

I agree about a million percent. The Mopar viscous fan package will cool just about anything with an appropriately sized radiator, shroud and everything else you need for a good cooling system. On some A bodies though, space gets too tight.
 
I have very similar set up as you in a 67 cuda. I have the 3 row champion radiator with the shroud and two 10" fans. I would heat up as well to about 205 then it would level out. I am running a 180 thermastat confirmed by heat gun on kitchen stove. Solution. I installed to 10" fans on the front side as pushers. I wired those fans to a manual switch. The puller fans I have wired to a sensor and a override switch. I also have a 8 blade water pump as well. Horse power makes heat. So a total of four fans. Two pullers two pushers. With this combo I can run 185 all day long.
 
Check for vacuum leak around the base of carb to intake, especially if the intake is a spread bore and a square bore carb. This makes you lean at idle and run hot. Happen to me feel like a fool but couldn't hear it and motor seem to idle ok but ran hot until I was driving it then would cool down. I had 650 HP aluminum rad. Fully shrouded big flex fan, be cool electric push fan,160 hi flow thermostat, Flow cooler water pump, water wetter. I tried it all. Changed cams a few weeks ago and found it. Now she gets to 160 and sets there. Will have to go up to 180 to get some heat back in the motor.
 
Thanks Rusty,
-I would do everything possible (re-engineer the rad yoke if necessary) to run a mechanical fan, before I would consider electrics on a streeter.
-The following rant is for those who actually chose the electrics for their streeter, over an oem type.
-Some say the mechanical fan sucks 7hp, others 15hp. To that I answer, a heat-seized motor makes ZERO hp. And those numbers are estimated at the track at WOT, full load, full rpm. And just how many times are you there during the lifetime of the motor? And do you really want to risk your 6 or 7 or maybe 8 thousand dollar,engine, on an electric fan that can fail without any notice whatsoever. And if you think that little pos dash gauge or any after-market electric gauge is gonna save the day, HAH. You better tape it to your eyeball! By the time that thing starts registering, it will probably be too late. They are notoriously slow. Frustratingly slow. Impossible to save your motor slow.
-And in the end you are just trading one form of energy for another. The power to run those electrics has to come from somewhere. And when it comes from around the corner and up the street, it loses its efficiency and costs more.
-So its no electrics for me.
-But, you might ask, what if I throw a belt? I say, who engineered the drive system? Or you might ask, What if the belt breaks? I say, Whos maintaining the drive system? You might ask, what if the clutch fails?I say dont run a clutch. Thing is, Ive never seen an instantaneous viscous clutch failure. They usually give lots of advance warning, including leaking.This is where that dash gauge can actually be of value, if you give it more than an occasional glance.I have seen a couple of thermostatic clutches quit in the no-drive position.One was obviously gummed up, so we are back to maintenance.
-Heres something else, concerning that clutch fan;Most adequately sized and well- maintained, cooling systems dont need a fan with good airflow over it. This means there are 2 times the fan needs to work; From idle to about 30mph, and again when working harder at high speeds. Well guess what, thats how the T-fans work. Hot air through the rad; fan blows hard. Cold air; fan freewheels.So the only times its costing you hp, is under 30 mph( where you already have an abundance of extra hp), or when speeding. Which is illegal. And youre still not at WOT, so theres plenty of reserve HP.
-Theres one other time it can cost. Thats at the racetrack. But heres the thing;You have options. You can even take the belt off, if you dare. If you stage with a cool motor, the fan may not even start pulling til the top of the track, or maybe not until pitroad. Winner!
-So all this talk about lost hp is just smoke in the wind. What streeter runs Wot, full load, full rpm long enough to even contemplate 7 to 15 hp? Run a mechanical with a clutch if you like, and, fugetabowdit.
-I run the T-clutch. Ford, if you must know. Probably 10 years at least. 7200 shifts, no belts thrown. All stock gauges. Yes Oppie, it is possible.
- Now to those who just have to run an electric, or just want to; Um sorry for the wasted time.
-As always, just MHO, and what works for me.
 
Yup. I THOUGHT about an electric fan to cool my 331 Hemi in my rat truck.....for about three seconds. lol
 
Isn't it time for this thread to get thrown in the heating and cooling section and get no more help or input ? Mine did two days ago ? Just sayin - I'm liking this thread because I'm learning more about some of the same stuff I need to know . . SUBSCRIBED:happy1:
 
Two 9" fans are not enough to cool any healthy V8 engine, especially in an less-than-efficient 3-row design.
 
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