stock 318 pinging

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jim in seattle

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Slowly bringing this thing back to life. For now, I have it on the road. I have put dual exhaust w/ stock manifold, and on the intake side I have a K&N and drilled the airfilter box out a bit to let it breath. Thats it and thats how I am going to drive it until I get more cash. After recent plugs/wire/points/cap/rotor, I get two symptoms that might be related:

1) when I stab the gas, it hesitates and even dies sometimes. If I roll it on slowly it is fine
2) it has a pretty bad ping when I put my foot into it at all, even at low rpms. basically whenever the engine is loaded up and accelerating.

I put an octance booster in, if it helped it is not enough to tell. So on this totally stock 318, what do I look for to get the ping gone?

Points at .018 and plugs .035. Haven't touched timing yet until I know what I should try. There are so many opinions on here but none that I could find for this totally stock set up. Thanks
 

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I keep preaching this, and the reason is, that "stuff happens." Front dampeners magically move, changing the timing marks, sometimes advance weights rust up or the springs break, and excessive wear in a distributor can cause over-advancing as the vacuum can moves it.

And, you could have problems with carbon buildup, overheating (don't trust the factory gauge/ sender), as well as oil consumption. Even consumption you cannot see in the mirror as you drive can be enough to cause ping. You might have the wrong plugs

SO---FIRST thing to do is "see where the timing is." Rig up a "piston stop" like this:

http://www.jerrybramlett.net/images/pic_installation.jpg

You can make 'em from and old plug or buy 'em.

With the battery unhooked, wrench the engine around, with the stop in no1, until it stops. Make a temporary mark under TDC on the timing tab on the balancer. Do the same thing CCW. Now you'll have two marks "some distance" apart. True TDC will be halfway in between those marks, and if the old mark was still accurate, that is where it will be.

You can, if you are a little ambitious, calculate the "degrees per inch" around your wheel, and mark it at least every 10*. Then divide those (!!!with dividers!!!) and you'll have a wheel out to 50*, ever 5*. This is REAL handy for checking advance, both mechanical and vacuum

Oil---Ref the engine up/ down a few times and I mean REV it and watch for oil cloud out back.

Temp---Don't trust the factory gauge. Get even HVAC thermometer and tape under the top hose, tape a couple of rags around it for insulation. Run it a little and see what the temp is.
 
Here is something to consider.

Back the timing off, less advance.

Adjust the cars reaction and performance per the fuel you use everyday.


Here is how I would do this with one of my units.

Fresh parts or not, take the wrench you will need, and a rag, drive around a bit to bring up the engine up to operation temperature.

Find a somewhat steep hill, from a standstill get into the gas and listen for ping.

Got ping?

Pull over, and back off the distributor a small bit, and try it again.

Make adjustments until you can put your foot into it and pull up that hill without any pinging.


Now, although there is some finer adjustments you will be likely looking at, you have adjusted that car to the fuel you use everyday.


If you use the specs and settings out of a 1970 service manual, you have to remember the fuel in those days was higher in octane and contained less of these wonder additives.

In my case the service manual was printed in 1957.


There are other causes for ping, but, all things being equal, even a fresh clean running engine that has no issues at all, should still be adjusted in this fashion.

If a person uses different fuels, say when the go to the track, you simply do the same thing but make a note of the advance setting so you can when you use the higher octane fuel you can adjust for it with a timing light.

Also, it pays to find the brand and type of fuel that performs the best in your car and stick to it.

That way at least you have one constant if you have to figure out an issue.


More than once I have helped all someone all day long, fighting to get things right, only to find out that they bought gas at some crummy gas station they had never been to before.
 
Get the points right before you touch it with a timing light or it will never be right. The points should be 28-32 degrees. Since the point adjustment DIRECTLY affects timing, puttin a light on it with the points out will only get you that much farther away. Points first, then timing. Then carb adjustments and check timing one more time. Done.

Oh, and use a dwell meter to set your points. Usin a feeler gauge might be real old school, but it results in terribly inaccurate adjustments because it's difficult to make SURE the feeler gauge is between the points straight. Too many variables there and dwell meters are too dang cheap not to have one. No excuses. Do it right.
 
I assume it starts easy enough, idles decent, doesn't have any other symptoms.
So, If the vacuum spark advance is getting a correct vacuum signal, replace it.
 
Quick way to ball park it for the gas your running on,keep retarding the distributor till the pinging stops at full throttle, when you can barely hear it ping back it off 2 degrees or more .I have also seen heavily carboned engines that pinged due to the excessive carbon raising the cr. Don't know if its still done but I saw mechanics years ago clean carbon deposits by pouring small amounts of water down the carb at a very fast idle.
 
carbon raises cylinder pressure sometimes and other times it just gets red hot hot and glows, setting off any mix in the cylinder prematurely.

I say after proper points adjustment, just back off the timing till it quits pinging, if it doesn't quit....pull the head/s and scrape the carbon off the pistons, maybe do a leak down test before that.
 
Quick way to ball park it for the gas your running on,keep retarding the distributor till the pinging stops at full throttle, when you can barely hear it ping back it off 2 degrees or more .I have also seen heavily carboned engines that pinged due to the excessive carbon raising the cr. Don't know if its still done but I saw mechanics years ago clean carbon deposits by pouring small amounts of water down the carb at a very fast idle.


I learned this from MR. Wilson, he was the auto shop teacher at North Hollywood High.

Easier with someone in the car the keep the revs up.

With the revs up, slowly pour a large tumbler style drinking glass full of water down the carb, being careful not to over do it and bog the engine.

MR. Wilson's demo included a piece of cardboard placed at the end of the exhaust.

After one tumbler full of water, the cardboard had a black, sticky, almost tar like deposit that had more volume than any of us expected.

Flip the cardboard and repeat, the second tumbler produced about 10% of what the first tumbler did.

It's science.

Water introduced into the combustion process turns to steam, each oxygen atom latches onto a carbon atom and heads for the exit.

This essentially steam cleans the combustion chamber, saving the back breaking work of pulling the heads scraping and wire wheeling, buying head gaskets, and putting the whole thing back together.


I would not use this process on a vehicle that has a catalytic converter.

I have a creepy feeling that sticky black tar crap that I saw on that cardboard would screw up a catalytic converter.

If you need to do this, and the system has a catalytic converter
unbolt the converter and let it hang, wire it off to the side, or hell, replace it with a Test Tube and go on with your life.
 
Slowly bringing this thing back to life
.

How long did this car sit?

Any chance of old gas in the tank?

If it wasn't having this problem back when it was parked, and now it is......

Let it warm up and put a timing light on it, forget what ever reading you see, like another member already mentioned, you can't always trust the readings you get.

But, you can rev the engine and observe how the advance reacts.

Also, if you have mechanical advance weights in your distributor see if there is any issue with the springs.
(weak,stretched out,broken)

I get two symptoms that might be related:

1) when I stab the gas, it hesitates and even dies sometimes. If I roll it on slowly it is fine
2) it has a pretty bad ping when I put my foot into it at all, even at low rpms. basically whenever the engine is loaded up and accelerating.

I put an octane booster in, if it helped it is not enough to tell. So on this totally stock 318, what do I look for to get the ping gone?

Points at .018 and plugs .035. Haven't touched timing yet until I know what I should try. There are so many opinions on here but none that I could find for this totally stock set up. Thanks
*
If I were in your shoes, and the fuel is fresh, and the distributor is sound, I would loosen the distributor, and back off the timing, leave it partway snugged down, so you can move it with a firm hand, but it won't move on it's own.

I would water board the engine...LOL....
then drive it around, climb a hill, when all is cool, snug it down tight.

I keep the one wrench needed to do this in my glove box.

In my case, it's a 1/2" combination wrench.

When you get to the point that it runs nice, check everything and do your little adjustments, dwell, gap, whatever.

Should be fine.
 
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