Summer Water Temp Baseline?

Discussion in 'Slant 6 Engines' started by doc540, May 28, 2018.

  1. famous bob

    famous bob mopar misfit

    Messages:
    10,534
    Likes Received:
    2471
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Location:
    okla
    Local Time:
    3:48 PM
    Sounds like u have a handle on it. But I`m sure my engine makes a hell of a lot more heat than urs. I do have the 1200 cfm throttle body sealed to the hood, always have. I do have (roughly) two 2 1/2" x 12" vents along side the 6 pack scoop. I definitely don`t have room for any clutch type fan. I doubt if it would be any better than a mech fan anyway in my case. For the 17" fan to even work, I had to build the shroud up about 2" on top and close it in to pull air w/o a loss. I cant run a bigger fan, just no room anywhere . I could cut the rad. opening out to include the side tanks on the crossflow rad., I didn`t want to because of what the car is. I can`t see that really making much diff. tho , but a little is all I need. I also could move the rad. forward by hacking the cradle up I guess, and that would give a little more room , where I might could run a bigger diameter fan. THANKS for the insight , but most of it just don`t fit my case. I think I`ll drain it down and cut the cradle out to let the side tanks have air next. ???
    Front booster fan, relay, horn, and stuff in the way= pain in the --------LOL
    I am wondering what effect a 15 pound cap would have in place of the super stout 16 pound that came w/ the radiator .When I saw how tite the upper hose was , it scared me a little !
     
  2. doc540

    doc540 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    456
    Likes Received:
    152
    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2013
    Location:
    Beaumont, Texas
    View My Photos
    Local Time:
    3:48 PM
    Good info.

    And I posted in the first post and multiple times that a shroud is getting fabbed and is my next step. (and I hope it provides an improved margin)

    My initial question, though, was simply "What are the maximum allowable temps measured at the radiator intake and outtake necks at idle, in gear, A/C on?"

    In other words in any stock Slant what's the highest acceptable engine temperature before bad things start happening?
     
  3. j par

    j par Well-hung Member

    Messages:
    10,008
    Likes Received:
    3352
    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2014
    Location:
    Portland Oregon
    View My Photos
    Local Time:
    1:48 PM
    Wasn't that covered? 230°
    This ain't nothing... You got to read the thread what the guy with the $1,200 radiator and all the custom work he's had to do to it to make it fit an extra parts just had to buy to make it work LOL and still the same temperature as you're seeing LOL
    My first question in these situations just to make sure, were you or any previous owner a fan of a product called "stop leak"?
     
  4. AJ/FormS

    AJ/FormS 367 FormS clone 3.09-1.92-1.40-1.09-.78od 3.55s

    Messages:
    14,450
    Likes Received:
    3772
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2014
    Location:
    South-Central Manitoba,Canada, 900ftelevation
    View My Photos
    Local Time:
    3:48 PM
    Bob
    When you are running down the road at 65 mph, this requires about 50 hp. It does not matter if you have 300 500 or 800 hp, it only takes 50 or so. And that 50hp requires a certain amount of fuel, in direct relationship to the power output. So all engines, in 3500# bricks like mine,require about the same cooling system capacity to cruise at 65 mph. If you are having trouble under these conditions,logic says that your solutions will be the same as mine were.
    I'm pretty sure you know this, so I'm probably preaching to the choir.
    I also understand that your bigger engine will be creating more heat strictly due to it's size.
    But here's the thing; My cooling system is adequate to cruise at 120 all day long in the hottest parts of a Minnesota/South Dakota day. We know that when we double the speed it takes over 4 times the power, so let's just say 120 requires 180hp. I know that my cooling system is up to that task.
    And since it went 93 in the 1/8th, without budging the needle, I also know that she is good to a tic over 400hp for 7 or 8 seconds, atta time.
    I presented my solutions for your perusal. I'm not saying that my way is the only way or the best way, but it sure as chit was the cheapest and the most reliable for my power level, and for my useage.
    Feel free to copy it, or not.
    Again, if I'm going over old ground, my apologies.

    >As to the side tanks receiving air, I agree with you; the water just doesn't spend a lot of time in the tanks,and that portion of water that passes right next to the tank skin,they say,is slow moving,sticking to the skin, in the same manner as fuel sticks to the runner walls on a cold engine. My conventional tanks are shrouded too.
    >I empathize with your no-room-for-a fan-clutch, and so, I have seen that 7-blade hi-attack fan with the funky curled tips, as a direct-drive as well. And with the amount of money you likely have in that monster engine, I'm guessing reliability is a key point for you.
    >If I had your problem, Ima thinking I would at least try a direct-drive monster fan on there like that, and either move the rad forward or try a thinner one.
    >At idle, the major difference between our engines, in terms of heat production, is internal friction, and ring-seal, and ignition timing. So FYI, I offer this; I used Plasma-moly file-fit conventional 4.04 rings, and the Blowby at the time of install was almost immeasurable. Eventually it settled in at about 2%. I use Hughes 1110 (IIRC) springs shimmed "a little" to control the OEM valves in my OOTB Eddies, to at least 7200 rpm. I use roller-tipped-only aluminum adjustable rockers. My cylinder pressure has run between 175 and 190 depending on which cam was in it at the time. I run 87E10 exclusively. And my engine does not care much about idle-timing; I run 14 to 16.
    Other tricks;
    I run the big Milodon oilpan, for extra capacity and extra cooling. But it usually has no more than 6 qts in it, to divorce the oil from the crank as much as possible. I run the dual 3" full-length mandrel-bent cannons, not because my engine needs them, but to shuttle the heat out as fast as possible. I closed off the area between the bottom of the rad-cradle and the K, with a custom steel belly-pan mostly to protect the oilpan which hangs down nearly an inch and I kept snagging it on things; but also to force the air that was exiting the rad to flow rearwards over the engine, and out past the headers, and finally under the car; unconventional I know, but it's a streeter,limited to street speeds. The Barracuda has about a 1inch rake front to back, in an effort to create a low pressure area back there, to help draw the hot air out.Ima thinking it must be working cuz the floor gets pretty hot.
    I like to leave it idling for long periods of time, when amongst other hotrods, to shame those guys who cannot so do,lol. You know, kindof in your face azzhole. It ain't cuz of the lope, cuz my 230 cam has very little of it. I keep the idle Rs up, to keep the fan spinning with the underdrive pulleys, and to keep the oil circulating with the HV pump, and to be sneaky. No lope = no threat.
    So again,I offer this for your perusal believing that you are aware of most or all these tricks, but also as of interest to those others who may come afterwards and who do not.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • doc540

      doc540 Well-Known Member

      Messages:
      456
      Likes Received:
      152
      Joined:
      Oct 7, 2013
      Location:
      Beaumont, Texas
      View My Photos
      Local Time:
      3:48 PM
      marvel7.jpg Oh, no. Learned my lesson years ago. The only "additive" that goes in my engines is a small dose of MMO! :)

      (strongly tempted though to try Royal Purple's "Purple Ice")
       
      • Like Like x 1
      • j par

        j par Well-hung Member

        Messages:
        10,008
        Likes Received:
        3352
        Joined:
        Jul 2, 2014
        Location:
        Portland Oregon
        View My Photos
        Local Time:
        1:48 PM
        I use just straight distilled water and a bottle of Redline water wetter. I've been tempted to try other stuff too but then when I read up on it and the problems people had with it and I quickly change my mind.
         
        • Like Like x 1
        • j par

          j par Well-hung Member

          Messages:
          10,008
          Likes Received:
          3352
          Joined:
          Jul 2, 2014
          Location:
          Portland Oregon
          View My Photos
          Local Time:
          1:48 PM
          I agree but to what I don't have a clue! LOL I only read about 20% of these crazy ass way too long posts LOL I love you AJ! Also everybody does know he types us all out by hand? No voice command like me...
          Good Lord! LOL I had to edit my voice command and it was a pain just to scroll all the way down to the bottom to get to it! LOL
           
        • doc540

          doc540 Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          456
          Likes Received:
          152
          Joined:
          Oct 7, 2013
          Location:
          Beaumont, Texas
          View My Photos
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          I agree. But there are so many amateur tests contradicting each other it's hilarious.
           
          Last edited: Jun 3, 2018
        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit

          Messages:
          10,534
          Likes Received:
          2471
          Joined:
          Aug 14, 2011
          Location:
          okla
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          j par---whats wrong w/ royal purple additive, all I`ve read says it s the best, better than water wetter! ????
          Colt--- Who u callin an amateur !! LOL
          AJ---No matter,at 65 mph, a bigger hi h.p. engine will make more heat. Bigger moving parts, more weight etc. My initial timing , I dropped back to 21, it runs best /so far w/ 22. I run an alum. 7 qt old funny car pan . As I posted earlier, I run the biggest mech. fan I can. I run gapless rings, I have never had a leakage problem w/ them, and they have worked for me in 600 horse sbc engines as well as this engine, the thing a has more vacuum than the cam should allow. I run full 3 1/2" exhaust, fully wrapped from the heads to the turn downs (because I had it ) in front of the rear axle, no bends in the entire system. No interior heat and not any extra noise w/ my home rigged 3 1/2" mufflers, no back pressure and no racking. Full hughs roller set up, and .628/ 260 @ .50 street roller cam etc. The stud girdle helps control the crankcase oil deal some. Vents in the hood . Not going to a smaller rad. under any circumstances! Has more rake than 1".
          And the whole car is "in ur face", most people think it`s a hemi when they hear it. Most of this "close to " overheating has came on w/ the fan experimentation. I still have a couple of things I want to try, before going back to the original set up. The whole deal started w/ me trying elec fans.
          I would love to have a spoiler by randy, I think it would help some,maybe a bunch, but would be hard to tow the car "if I had to!" ( hope that isn`t needed !" Thanks for the suggestions tho--any others will be read and considered !--------AINT WE GOT FUN! Bob
           
        • j par

          j par Well-hung Member

          Messages:
          10,008
          Likes Received:
          3352
          Joined:
          Jul 2, 2014
          Location:
          Portland Oregon
          View My Photos
          Local Time:
          1:48 PM
          I didn't say anything was wrong with it cuz I have no personal experience with it I just thought I read some bad reviews on it. It could have been on something else because I was just reaching myself for a better way one day..
           
        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit

          Messages:
          10,534
          Likes Received:
          2471
          Joined:
          Aug 14, 2011
          Location:
          okla
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          cool !
           
        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit

          Messages:
          10,534
          Likes Received:
          2471
          Joined:
          Aug 14, 2011
          Location:
          okla
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          I ended up getting a bigger bottle of wetter type stuff, that`s label read the same as puple ice, but was 4 more oz. of it for $3 cheaper . Started the engine and circulated it , but didn`t drive it .
          I did find that my recovery system was empty for the first time , I think I might have had trapped air in it !!
           
        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit

          Messages:
          10,534
          Likes Received:
          2471
          Joined:
          Aug 14, 2011
          Location:
          okla
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          correction, 2 x 16" air vents in hood------------
           
        • doc540

          doc540 Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          456
          Likes Received:
          152
          Joined:
          Oct 7, 2013
          Location:
          Beaumont, Texas
          View My Photos
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          update:
          custom shroud is being held up by a lot of company work for my sheet metal guy (good for him, told him to make hay while the sun shines)

          He has the mock up finished, just waiting for the finished product
           
        • famous bob

          famous bob mopar misfit

          Messages:
          10,534
          Likes Received:
          2471
          Joined:
          Aug 14, 2011
          Location:
          okla
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          SHOW US PICS IF U CAN -------
           
        • doc540

          doc540 Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          456
          Likes Received:
          152
          Joined:
          Oct 7, 2013
          Location:
          Beaumont, Texas
          View My Photos
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          You bet.
          If things work out the way I hope, I'll post his contact information.
          He's interested in making more shrouds for 1960-1961, 19" Slant Six radiators.
           
        • doc540

          doc540 Well-Known Member

          Messages:
          456
          Likes Received:
          152
          Joined:
          Oct 7, 2013
          Location:
          Beaumont, Texas
          View My Photos
          Local Time:
          3:48 PM
          Seems to have passed the tropical swamp test.

          Drove at highway speeds.

          Stopped and let it idle with A/C on and a 125+ heat index day.

          Actual coolant temp at the top of the tank is 185-190.

          lancer temp7.jpg

          lancer shroud1.jpg
           
          • Like Like x 1