Suspension & Steering Shopping List

Mopar Performance Issues

  1. Jesus Chrysler

    Jesus Chrysler Forgiving Sins Against Mopar Since 1983

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    It sure does ad up quick! This doesn't even include tires & wheels or chassis stiffening!

    Please review and let me know if i missed anything or feel free to tear apart my list and tell me I'm an idjit!

    Car is a 1967 Fastback Barracuda 383S/A833.

    Thread Title was supposed to be "Suspension & Brakes Shopping List" but i can't figure out how to edit the title. Standby for RRR to tell me i'm supposed to know everything.

    92BzeKfl.jpg
     
  2. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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    That is a heck of a list! :thumbsup:

    I may be biased though, absolutely everything on that list is on my Duster with the exceptions that I run the 13" cobra style kit instead of Viper brakes, have different spring rate AFCO's and I run Hellwig sway bars instead of Hotchkis. Literally everything else is the same. Prices have definitely gone up on some of those items since I installed them on my Duster though!

    Really only a couple of suggestions, the first one being that I think the AFCO 20231HD's will be too stiff for a handling car, and will have too much arch (6 5/8"), which will put the ass end up in the air and upset your roll center. Those springs have a rate at 166 lb/in, which is super high. I run AFCO's on my Duster as well, the now discontinued 20231M's. They're 121 lb/in and have the 5 5/8" arch. Unfortunately with the return of the Mopar Oval track springs the 20231M's were discontinued. If you want to stay AFCO, I would suggest the 20230's. They have a 5 5/8" arch and a 142 lb/in rate, which is the lowest rate currently offered by AFCO (which is a bummer IMO). I like the 121 lb/in springs on my Duster, which is also a 108" wheelbase like your Barracuda, and runs 1.12" torsion bars with a small block. If anything, my Duster may be heavier since it's a '74, although I have ditched most of the heavy '74 stuff for the '71 versions (bumpers, bumper mounts, etc). So honestly I'd be more inclined to replace the AFCO's with Hotchkis leaf springs in your list. Even with the 20231M's and the spring sliders lowering the car about 3/8" compared to shackles, with 27" tall rear tires I'm considering a 1/2" lowering block to sit the car flat.

    How come your spring sliders are racist? :poke: (looks like you've got a typo :p )

    But seriously, another option is the Calvert rear spring sliders. Unlike the AFCO's, they have an angle built into the slider track to better match the spring. It depends entirely on how you're planning on mounting the spring sliders, but on my car I mounted them flat because they sit against the frame bracket, so the angled track would have been beneficial for better geometry. So far it works fine the way it is, but if I was going to start from scratch I'd use the Calverts this time. They're also less expensive than the AFCO's, but the quality is still great (I have a set of these too, just not on the car).
    Calvert Racing SL-300-CR Calvert Racing Leaf Spring Sliders | Summit Racing

    You shouldn't need a leaf spring bushing kit (LSBK30). Your new leaf springs (regardless of brand) should come with front bushings, and the sliders will include the aluminum rear bushing.

    Don't spend $35 on torsion bar boots. These work, even with 1.12" bars. I have them on my Duster and Challenger 1974 PLYMOUTH DUSTER Energy Suspension 5.13101G Energy Suspension Torsion Bar Dust Boots | Summit Racing
    See, saving money already! :D

    img_9963-jpeg.jpg
     
  3. Jesus Chrysler

    Jesus Chrysler Forgiving Sins Against Mopar Since 1983

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    Racist sliders, LOL!!! Definitely a typo there!

    Thank you for your input. I based most of this list off your posts so it should look familiar.

    it’s all completely preliminary at this point. I just came to the conclusion that my entire suspension really needs a rebuild and rather than blow $500 to rebuild it I’m just going to start amassing the parts for what I really want.

    I will definitely look into the Calvert sliders as well.

    in regards to the leaf springs, I didn’t have much to go on other than the suggested vehicle weight on the Summit page which I believe was 3200lbs max which should be right around where the barracuda is, I do believe. I looked at the funky Hotchkis springs and just couldn’t find any input on the internetz one way or the other. I’m pretty sure they would save me some money though.
     
  4. Wvbuzzmaster

    Wvbuzzmaster Well-Known Member

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    It adds up quick if you do it on a spreadsheet... I opted to not know and just started researching individual parts and researched here on FABO. I also asked 72blunblu direct on anything I ended up fuzzy on, and got convinced that after buying new leaf springs, Mopar spindles and new disc brakes to convert and so on and so forth, sticking with slant 6 torsion bars was an oversight if I wanted a car that would actually turn LOL. Throwing money left and right can get interesting quick when you have never set up a car of any type, forget it being Mopar, to do anything at all, and now I want it to turn... hmmm... lol. I don’t want to know what my total is up to and not sure how much included all new interior and wiring etc, but not cheap and I know it will only go higher, or be unavailable, so building my dream car, I spend the money... now I just have to find the time to keep installing parts without running into more of the last owner’s errors... which add to the cost.

    I’m not sure what rate leaf springs you need but I just bought a set from Espo (springsnthings) and they were speced to my car. I went with 340 springs 6 leaf and I think they are either a 120 or 130 rate, the 5 leaf were around 90 rate. Haven’t driven in them yet but very impressed with the quality and firm suspension feel pushing down on the bumper.

    Good luck on the build, hope you can find the dollars and time.
     
  5. CUDA69

    CUDA69 Well-Known Member

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    • abodyjoe

      abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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      can look into the 130 lbs eaton spring..

      ML229 Standard Duty 2.5" width 6leaf 130 rate
       
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      • leechris81

        leechris81 Well-Known Member

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        I’m running the Hotchkiss leaf springs on my ‘73 Swinger. I don’t have anything bad to say about them at this point (less than 5,000) miles. They’re being used in conjunction with 1.03” bars up front, Bilstein shocks, and front and rear Hellwig sway bars. The car rides well and drives like a sports car. 9C3EFD6C-2015-46CA-A25D-A1AD25F85D04.jpeg
         
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        • Cuda416

          Cuda416 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Nice! What wheels are those?
           
        • dano

          dano Evil Handy Man

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          Do you need upper ball joints or any control arm bushings with the BAC and QA1 arms? I second the 13"/11.625" Cobra brakes from Dr Diff.
           
        • Jesus Chrysler

          Jesus Chrysler Forgiving Sins Against Mopar Since 1983

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          It appears as though ball joints are required.

          I've thought about the Cobra brakes as the Viper setup is the single largest purchase on my list and i could save $800+ by going with the Cobra brakes. I'm of the "buy once, cry once" mindset with this and I do want the best braking i can get.
           
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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          Bergman Autocraft sells the 130 lb/in Eatons, those would also be a good choice. Something in the 120-130 lb range.

          @autoxcuda also runs the Hotchkis springs

          Enkei RPF1’s, 18x9 +35 and 18x10 +38. With 275/35/18’s up front and 295/40/18’s out back.

          Ball joints are required, control arm bushings are not. I run the same Howe upper ball joints. They’re expensive, but very nice. Drag is adjustable, and they’re rebuildable.

          I run the 13” Cobra’s on my Duster, they work really well. But I have to say I’m still tempted by the viper kit. I know it’s mostly just because they look so damn cool, but I definitely understand even if they’re a bunch more expensive.
           
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          • abodyjoe

            abodyjoe Well-Known Member

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            thats where i got mine.. i like them on the car. one day i have to pony up for good shocks though.
             
          • dano

            dano Evil Handy Man

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            Which arms are you using, got a link?

            The BAC SPC Gen 2 arms look to have ball joints.
             
            Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
          • Jesus Chrysler

            Jesus Chrysler Forgiving Sins Against Mopar Since 1983

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          • dano

            dano Evil Handy Man

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          • dano

            dano Evil Handy Man

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            So what are you doing for a steering box?

            If your going lower than stock might factor bump stops as well.
             
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            • Jesus Chrysler

              Jesus Chrysler Forgiving Sins Against Mopar Since 1983

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              keeping it stock for now.

              my understanding is that the QA1 LCA’s incorporate a bump stop?
               
              Last edited: Jan 11, 2021
            • Dartsun

              Dartsun Mopar Dude

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              I run the Afco 23230 springs on my 65 Dart with bilsteins I really like them.
               
            • 72bluNblu

              72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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              Fancy!!!

              I might have to look at those for my Challenger when I get it going again. Not a fan of the heims on the Hotchkis arms I have now on it.

              The Gen I SPC’s come without the ball joint, the BAC version has Delrin bushings though

              They redesigned version of the QA1 LCA’s have a bumpstop built in. The first generation of them did not (mine don’t). It’s good that they have a bumpstop, but, it got rid of one of the biggest benefits of the tubular LCA’s which is that they give back about 1” of suspension travel. Which is very nice for lowered cars. The QA1 update basically returned the travel to stock because the bump stop and mount they use is so tall. I think it could be modified though. I put my bumpstops onto the frame horn for the original bump stop.

              You’ll still need an upper bumpstop for the SPC arms. You can use the stop bumpstop, but you may need to drill a new hole in the frame extension so hit contacts the arm.
               
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              • Jesus Chrysler

                Jesus Chrysler Forgiving Sins Against Mopar Since 1983

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                Got it. I haven't had the font wheels off since i rebuilt the brakes two years ago when i first got it on the road after it's 20 year hiatus. That said, i'm not terribly familiar with all the goings on under there currently. I had to go out and look at the lower control arm with a flashlight last night because i was looking at the QA1 unit and couldnt understand how the ball joint connected, lol. Not to worry though, I'm sure i will become intimately familiar with both the front and rear suspension soon enough.

                Is there a recommended upper bump stop? And if the QA1 bump stop is going to hinder needed travel, I will need to get that sorted out as well. I was actually somewhat on the fence about just doing the reinforcing plates on my stock LCA's but I also like the idea of keeping them original in case my car ever has to go back to stock. I'm sure it wouldn't be terribly hard to find replacement LCA's with the 67 sway bar mount, but knowing i have the unmolested originals gives me the warm and fuzzies. My research (basically just your postings lol) has also led me to believe that the Hotchkis 67 sway bar will work with the QA1 LCA's with minimal fuss, modifying end links doesn't seem like the end of the world to me.
                 
              • 72bluNblu

                72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                The '67-72 Hotchkis sway bar does work with the QA1 LCA tabs. Because of the difference in the tubular LCA's you'll probably have to shorten the end links to get things lined up right, but that's easy. The Hotchkis 67-72 sway bar will NOT work with the stock '67-72 sway bar tabs, so, if your '67 LCA's have factory sway bar tabs I would absolutely take them off. They're worth a ton more than the non-tabbed LCA's, and the tabs are in the wrong place for the Hotchkis bar.

                The redesigned QA1 LCA's don't limit travel per say, they just return the suspension travel to factory. The original design did not have an LCA mounted bump stop, and because the tubular design's profile isn't as tall as the original LCA's it basically adds about 1" of travel. Which is super helpful for a lowered car. But you still have to add a bump stop somewhere, otherwise you can go metal to metal.

                This is the change, below are the originals
                mopar-lower-control-arms-png-png-png.png
                This is the redesign. You can see the bump stop and the additional threaded boss. I like the boxed gusset, but the height of the threaded boss and bump stop removes the bonus travel the original design had.
                img_2876-jpg-jpg-jpg.jpg

                This is my car with the QA1 LCA's. You can see the bump stop I added onto the frame, as well as my taller upper bump stop. Because my car is lowered, I have a thin lower bumpstop and a taller upper bump stop. That re-centers the range of travel, so my lowered ride height is still in the middle of the range of available suspension travel. If I had kept the stock sized bump stops, I would have very little upward travel and a TON of downward travel.

                img_4412-jpg.jpg
                img_4403-jpg.jpg

                These are my lower bump stops
                Energy Suspension 9.9132G Energy Suspension Bump Stops | Summit Racing

                These are my upper bump stops. They're already taller than stock, although you can see I raised them up another 1/8". This is to keep my torsion bar adjusters in contact with the adjusting bolts. The 1.12" torsion bars, because they're stiffer, don't twist very much. So you have to center the range of travel to how much they twist, otherwise at full droop the adjusters unseat. It's the combination of being lowered and the large bars.
                Energy Suspension 9.9136G Energy Suspension Bump Stops | Summit Racing

                If you don't lower the car as much then you won't need bump stops that are as tall and short as mine. But you need to check the range of travel, when you start combining aftermarket parts the geometry changes. That's the point! But it also means that you need to check EVERYTHING, cycling the suspension through its range of travel to look for issues. Like the torsion bar adjusters unseating at the bottom, or not having enough upward travel, binding, interference, etc. With this set up, for example, I have 13" from the center of the spindle to the top of the inner fender. Meaning, if I were to install a tire more than 26" tall it could rub on the inner fender with the suspension completely bottomed out. Lots of stuff to consider!
                 
              • Jesus Chrysler

                Jesus Chrysler Forgiving Sins Against Mopar Since 1983

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                Thank you yet again for the information. Why so tall on the upper bumpstop, what's the first part to hit in full droop without it?
                 
              • 72bluNblu

                72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Actually the upper isn't even that tall. The factory upper bumpstop is like 1.5" tall. The poly one I use is 2", plus the 1/8" spacer, so, it's really only about 5/8" taller than stock. My car is lowered about 2" from stock, so, if anything it could be taller.

                I think I mentioned this, but because my car is lowered on the factory suspension (well, factory design anyway) I had to alter the bump stops. The suspension travel on my car is almost identical to the amount of travel on a factory car- part of that is the tubular LCA, the other is the bump stops. So, the tubular LCA gets me almost 1" of travel. My lower bumpstops are 3/8" tall, compared to the stock 1-3/8", so, that's another 1". Or pretty much the entire 2" drop. Since my suspension can now go up another 2", and my torsion bars are 1.12" and don't have to twist very far to deal with high loading, the range of adjustment changes too.

                So, if I left the factory upper bump stop in there at full droop my torsion bar adjusting bolts drop off the torsion bar blade, which fully unloads the torsion bars. That can be real bad when the suspension compresses again and either the adjusting bolt crashes back into the blade or shifts slightly and misses it. So I use a taller bumpstop to keep the adjusters loaded at full droop. But, I only raised the upper bump stop 5/8", so really compared to stock I probably have more down travel from ride height. The wheels don't hang down as far at full droop, but the distance from the spindle location at ride height to full droop is similar (or even a little more).

                Suspension is complicated stuff, which is why you see so many lowered (or lifted) vehicles that handle and ride like absolute trash. Everything in suspension is a trade off of some kind, and every thing you change effects something else.
                 
              • CRUZE 418

                CRUZE 418 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

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                Is there a specific reason why you wouldn't go with an aftermarket rack & pinion frt suspension and a 4-link rear?
                Less expensive
                Gerst suspension. On my Dart
                O'Reilly altercation
                 
              • Jesus Chrysler

                Jesus Chrysler Forgiving Sins Against Mopar Since 1983

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                For one thing the 4-link rear requires more fabrication & modification than I care to do on this car and I prefer to keep the front suspension more true to the factory design.
                 
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