Sway bar options? Matching components.

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MOA

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From what I've read here, it's very important to match up sway bar to spring rates.

Here's what I have...

72 Dart swinger.

.990 torsion bar, HD 1" under 5 leaf springs from ESPO. 18x9 rims w/ 18x35x265 nitto 555 G2 tires. Rear springs located 1/2" inboard. Subframe connectors. Bilstein rcd shocks. Powersteering, 16:1 box. Having firm feel rebuild it.

Not planning to auto X this car, however, that's about how the car will be set up only slightly less aggressive.

Leaning towards hollow sway bars for reduced weight.
1-1/8 front, 7/8 rear?
 
I thought I was pretty clear. Given the normal response around here, I gave as much information as possible.

I know there are some pretty sharp people here.

Sway bar options.

Educated guess as to best match.

I put ? Marks where I have a question.
 
I thought that 3/4" was the biggest for the rear any bigger and the handling got worse, taking the weight off the rear inside wheel.
 
From what I've read here, it's very important to match up sway bar to spring rates.

Here's what I have...

72 Dart swinger.

.990 torsion bar, HD 1" under 5 leaf springs from ESPO. 18x9 rims w/ 18x35x265 nitto 555 G2 tires. Rear springs located 1/2" inboard. Subframe connectors. Bilstein rcd shocks. Powersteering, 16:1 box. Having firm feel rebuild it.

Not planning to auto X this car, however, that's about how the car will be set up only slightly less aggressive.

Leaning towards hollow sway bars for reduced weight.
1-1/8 front, 7/8 rear?

I ran a close setup for years. Get the Helwig hollow front. See how you like it and order rear if needed. I think the standard is 3/4”? For street wouldn’t put a big 7/8 rear. And not for track. Autocross may need big rear to help turn on tight course

OR get the adjustable rear.

Not sure how that fits/works with springs moved in. I think Hothchkis rear setups may address springs moved in.
 
From what I've read here, it's very important to match up sway bar to spring rates.

Here's what I have...

72 Dart swinger.

.990 torsion bar, HD 1" under 5 leaf springs from ESPO. 18x9 rims w/ 18x35x265 nitto 555 G2 tires. Rear springs located 1/2" inboard. Subframe connectors. Bilstein rcd shocks. Powersteering, 16:1 box. Having firm feel rebuild it.

Not planning to auto X this car, however, that's about how the car will be set up only slightly less aggressive.

Leaning towards hollow sway bars for reduced weight.
1-1/8 front, 7/8 rear?


1-1/8 front is a very good choice and I imagine 7/8 is fine for the rear from what I heard.
I have been told by others when I was shopping for my front sway bar to never even look at the hollow ones but then I was keeping my /six bars which are tiny. The solid 1 1/8 front held up the car fine and stopped the headers from scrapping on bumps. I suppose if you have the proper torsion bars something smaller or even hollow would be ok.
 
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my biggest beef with aftermarket sway bars for Mopars is that the attaching hardware is usually crap. If you have a Camaro, or Mustang the hardware is well-designed, fits well, looks good and works well. But the stuff for Mopars looks like it was cobbled from stuff you can buy from the corner hardware store. It may be a little better, now, but I'm not exaggerating about the stuff a few years ago. I still have a Hellwig I bought 40 years ago, mail order, that was so cheesy looking I never installed it.
 
my biggest beef with aftermarket sway bars for Mopars is that the attaching hardware is usually crap. If you have a Camaro, or Mustang the hardware is well-designed, fits well, looks good and works well. But the stuff for Mopars looks like it was cobbled from stuff you can buy from the corner hardware store. It may be a little better, now, but I'm not exaggerating about the stuff a few years ago. I still have a Hellwig I bought 40 years ago, mail order, that was so cheesy looking I never installed it.

Hotchkis
Hellwig
Firm Feel

All of those three have very good attaching hardware.

The Addco (Direct Connection, MP, etc) and many years ago Helwig have inferior attachment hardware.
 
1-1/8 front is a very good choice and I imagine 7/8 is fine for the rear from what I heard.
I have been told by others when I was shopping for my front sway bar to never even look at the hollow ones but then I was keeping my /six bars which are tiny. The solid 1 1/8 front held up the car fine and stopped the headers from scrapping on bumps. I suppose if you have the proper torsion bars something smaller or even hollow would be ok.

Nothing wrong/bad with hollow bars. Just lighter up front. Most new cars have hollow.

7/8 is a lot of rear bar. I have my rear bar totally disconnected. I have a 1 1/4” hollow front sway, 1.14” T-bars, hotchkis leaf spring, RCD shocks, etc...
 
Here's a Hellwig 67-72 front attachment brackets:

2cdius1.jpg

w054k7.jpg


Here's a Hellwig with 73-76 Kmember in my Barracuda:

hellwigfrontswaybarinstallsm18-jpg.jpg

hellwigfrontswaybarinstallsm06-jpg.jpg
 
Hotchkiss on my 73-76 Kmember

hotchkis11_22_10tvsbuildsm16-jpg.jpg

hotchkis11_22_10tvsbuildsm24-jpg.jpg


Hotchkis 67-72 sway bar setup:

ccrp_1007_09_o-complete_front_end-suspension_upgrade.jpg
 
Cool, thanks for the pics.

Will definitely go for a smaller rear 3/4". I'm glad I asked.
 
Cool, thanks for the pics.

Will definitely go for a smaller rear 3/4". I'm glad I asked.

Have you considered an adjustable rear sway bar?

There is no way to guess at the exact balance (over/under-steer) of your particular car with your mods.
 
AutoXcuda has pretty much covered everything spot on.

Hollow bars are just lighter, not weaker. I forget that exact number but like 90% of the spring rate on the sway bar comes from the outer surface, being a solid bar mostly just adds weight. Same reason you don’t want to put any knicks or gouges in the surface of your torsion bars, the load is primarily carried on the surface. Also, most of the hollow bars are slightly larger in diameter than solid bars for the same application, so, they make up for any loss from being hollow.

The Hellwig and Hotchkis rear sway bars are both 3 position adjustable. So either one would give you some adjustment.

The 1/2” offset does change things a little. Either of those bars will still fit. But, it does raise the spring rate you need slightly. There’s more that goes into it, but basically you make the lever arm between the wheel load and the spring a 1/2” longer, so, you need to raise the spring rate to compensate. It’s a pretty small difference, within the adjustment of the sway bar.

I have a Hellwig 1.125” hollow front sway bar and a Hellwig 7/8” solid rear sway bar (for an e body) on my Duster. I run 1.12” Firm Feel torsion bars, Hotchkis fox tuned shocks, AFCO 120 lb/in rear leaf springs with a 1/2” offset, 18x9’s up front with 275/35/18’s and 18x10’s out back with 295/35/18’s. Tires are BFG KDW2’s. Car has subframe connectors, torque boxes, J-bars (cowl to front frame rail with shock mount ties), and a tubular lower radiator support brace.

I run the rear sway bar on its lowest setting, but I haven’t found the car to be tail happy at all. I’ve considered bumping it up a setting. But that’s on the street, I haven’t pushed hard enough to really dial it in. The big 295’s don’t slide much, the 120 lb/in AFCO’s are 10 lb/in lighter than the Hotchkis springs Steve runs, my car is no doubt heavier, and I have the 1/2” spring offset. So I probably need more rear bar anyway.
 
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Have you considered an adjustable rear sway bar?

There is no way to guess at the exact balance (over/under-steer) of your particular car with your mods.

I haven't, but I am now. That might be a good move.

Thanks
 
I like the looks of that Hotchkiss bar on the 68-72 kframe.

Just comparing prices on Summit.
The hellwig front bar is $213
The Hotchkis is $300

If cost is a concern
 
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Does anyone know if the Hellwig bar can be used with the 67-72 lower control arms with factory sway bar tabs? The 67-72 lower arms have the factory sway bar tabs outboard of the strut rod, and even with the bottom of the control arm. From the pic that autoxcuda posted above of the hellwig on a 67-72 k-member it looks like the end of the hellwig bar attaches to a bracket bolted to the shock mount, and the end of the bar is basically right where my factory tabs are. Like they may interfere?

The Hotchkis bar definitely wont work with the factory tabs. It comes with tabs that weld onto the lower arms, inboard of the strut rod, and are even with the top of the arm.

I'm just trying to decide between the two, and it seems silly to weld new tabs onto arms that already have factory tabs.
 
Does anyone know if the Hellwig bar can be used with the 67-72 lower control arms with factory sway bar tabs? The 67-72 lower arms have the factory sway bar tabs outboard of the strut rod, and even with the bottom of the control arm. From the pic that autoxcuda posted above of the hellwig on a 67-72 k-member it looks like the end of the hellwig bar attaches to a bracket bolted to the shock mount, and the end of the bar is basically right where my factory tabs are. Like they may interfere?

The Hotchkis bar definitely wont work with the factory tabs. It comes with tabs that weld onto the lower arms, inboard of the strut rod, and are even with the top of the arm.

I'm just trying to decide between the two, and it seems silly to weld new tabs onto arms that already have factory tabs.

The Hellwig 5906 and 5907 front bars do use the factory LCA tabs, although they also come with hardware to attach them if you don’t have the factory LCA tabs. These do limit the front tire width though, I'm not 100% sure what the exact limit is but its around a 245. Larger than that definitely won't work, and I think the 55917 was actually designed because the other bars didn't work with a 245/45/17 on a members car. I'll try and find the thread.

The Hellwig 55917 is the “pro-touring” Hellwig bar for the 67-72 cars, and like the Hotchkis bar it uses different LCA tab locations than stock. It does allow for wider front tires though.

I think with your front tire set up you'll need the Hellwig 55917 or the Hotchkis front bar, which means different than stock LCA tab locations. I would buy a set of non-tabbed LCA's because they're cheap, and sell the LCA's with the stock tabs because those seem to fetch pretty good money. More than enough to cover the installation of new bushings, reinforcing plates and the tabs.
 
The Hellwig 5906 and 5907 front bars do use the factory LCA tabs, although they also come with hardware to attach them if you don’t have the factory LCA tabs. These do limit the front tire width though, I'm not 100% sure what the exact limit is but its around a 245. Larger than that definitely won't work, and I think the 55917 was actually designed because the other bars didn't work with a 245/45/17 on a members car. I'll try and find the thread.

The Hellwig 55917 is the “pro-touring” Hellwig bar for the 67-72 cars, and like the Hotchkis bar it uses different LCA tab locations than stock. It does allow for wider front tires though.

I think with your front tire set up you'll need the Hellwig 55917 or the Hotchkis front bar, which means different than stock LCA tab locations. I would buy a set of non-tabbed LCA's because they're cheap, and sell the LCA's with the stock tabs because those seem to fetch pretty good money. More than enough to cover the installation of new bushings, reinforcing plates and the tabs.
I am using the 55917 with weld on tabs, relocated them to work with the 55917.
 
Thanks 72blue.

Since I'm going to use 18/265/35 tires, it looks like I'll need the 55917 as well.
 
I think with your front tire set up you'll need the Hellwig 55917 or the Hotchkis front bar, which means different than stock LCA tab locations. I would buy a set of non-tabbed LCA's because they're cheap, and sell the LCA's with the stock tabs because those seem to fetch pretty good money. More than enough to cover the installation of new bushings, reinforcing plates and the tabs.

This is what I’m doing. Pretty much decided on the Hotchkis tubular sway bar. I’ve already bought a set of non tabbed lower control arms, and bought the stiffening plates from PST . Just need some new bushings, and need to buy the sway bar so I have the tabs to weld on the arms. Also I just bought a set of the Hotchkis adjustable strut rods to install at the same time.
Im just going back and forth on the bushing thing, rubber vs poly. Car will almost see nothing but street use, maybe an autocross or drag strip once or twice a year.
Would be interested in your input on bushings
 
This is what I’m doing. Pretty much decided on the Hotchkis tubular sway bar. I’ve already bought a set of non tabbed lower control arms, and bought the stiffening plates from PST . Just need some new bushings, and need to buy the sway bar so I have the tabs to weld on the arms. Also I just bought a set of the Hotchkis adjustable strut rods to install at the same time.
Im just going back and forth on the bushing thing, rubber vs poly. Car will almost see nothing but street use, maybe an autocross or drag strip once or twice a year.
Would be interested in your input on bushings

Sorry, just got back to replying to this one.

You're already using adjustable strut rods, so personally I would lean toward poly LCA bushings. I would include a set of greaseable LCA pivot pins with those though, I like the ones Firm Feel makes. The reason being is that the OE style rubber bushings out there now aren't that great of quality rubber. The biggest drawbacks to the poly bushings are the squeaking and a little extra fore/aft slip on the strut rod. But those drawbacks are solved with the greaseable pivot pins and adjustable strut rods. I've put tens of thousands of miles on the plain old energy suspension poly LCA bushings, and they've held up great. The ones I recently swapped out for Delrin bushings on my Duster still looked brand new after 10k miles.

On that note, there's also Delrin bushings available from Bergman AutoCraft. They're awesome, but for nothing but street use they're a little expensive, the poly bushings are much cheaper and still hold up well. I really like the Delrin bushings, but for your application I would file them under "overkill".
 
...On that note, there's also Delrin bushings available from Bergman AutoCraft. They're awesome, but for nothing but street use they're a little expensive, the poly bushings are much cheaper and still hold up well. I really like the Delrin bushings, but for your application I would file them under "overkill".
since this is 2 months old, the OP probably has these already, but, with all the other stuff he's running i don't think moving to the delrins are too much :thumbsup:

unless he's worried about NAV.
then again, if your worried about NAV i'd get a camery, not a 50yr old MOPAR
 
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