Sway Bars opinion

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Grasshopper

Grasshopper

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Just want to know your opinion. I have a 71 Scamp 225/5 w a/ac. I am purchasing a Hellwig front sway bar and am not sure which one to buy. They make a 1 1/8 solid and tubular bars and a 1 1/4 tubular bar. The tubular bars are lighter. What do you think? Thank you.
 
Does your car have any front bar on it right now? I went from no bar to the 1 1/8 bar and it was like driving a different car. Night to day difference. I would think that if your car is not modified (larger tires, better shocks, heavier engine), then the solid bar is going to be just fine for you. I believe I got my bar for right at $100. Best investment I made to the car.
 
Thanks, it does not have a bar on it now and has 14 inch wheels. It does not handle well at all. I was thinking of ordering the tubulat 1 1/4 to compensate for the slightly smaller solid bar to have less weight but am not sure what to do
 
X2 for me also, but I do not have the tabs on my lower control arms.
1966 Valiant /6 and will be doing the same REAL soon.. ? thinking I can have my friend weld some tab's on, or go to the lower shock area ?
I know there is a few early A's here that have dun this and I was wondering if Grasshopper has tabs already on his control arms ?
 
I don't know how well the tubular bars are, They used solid from the factory so unless I am told they work as good I will go solid .
 
Mine didn't have tabs either. My bar came with a plate that clamps to the bottom of the lower control arm and works really well. I believe my bar was a Hellwig also. I got mine about 10 years ago and haven't had a seconds problem. I did upgrade to better shocks and larger diameter torsion bars when I did the front end rebuild. Some of that was overkill for the street driving I do. I recommend the solid bar first.

newengine5.jpg
 
Thank you Rob, I just watched your build video :cheers: cool car to start with :happy1: and congratulations on a great build :cheers:
 
The greatest portion of bar strength, is in the outer diameter. A tubular bar may have the same or greater rate than the solid. There is sometimes a clearance issue with the strut rods, the larger diameter may make that worse.

I think either bar may exceed the rate of slant six T-Bars. It might be wise to upgrade those too.
 
Put both solid front and rear on my 67 Dart .The front had the tabs that bolted to the lower shock bolt. After had the tabs welded to the lower control arm.Didn't have the tubular back then,It will be the best thing you can do to your ride hands down.
Just remember to READ the instructions and tighten after the wheels are on the ground.Roll the car a few feet back and forth to settle the suspension then tighten all the bolts.
 
I have the hellwid 1-1/8 solid up front and I love it. The car no longer floats threw the turns and it just feels more solid all around. I would recommend changing the front shocks along with it to add an even better feel.
 
KitCarlson said:
The greatest portion of bar strength, is in the outer diameter. A tubular bar may have the same or greater rate than the solid. There is sometimes a clearance issue with the strut rods, the larger diameter may make that worse.

I think either bar may exceed the rate of slant six T-Bars. It might be wise to upgrade those too.
Click to expand...

If I keep (and will) the /6 do you still think I should change out the T-bars ?
Thank you for your info on this :happy1:
 
MeMike. I have gone to .870 or .920 bars on both the 67 and 63(/6 cars) when rebushing the front ends.Figured I had to remove them anyway.Now-a-days the look is low so crankin down the T-bars you still have some ride left.On the 63 I installed the .870 bars with 2''drop spindles that gave it the low look and still had ride travel.
So what came into effect was "snowballin" one thing leading to another.Could I or should I.Most of the parts were traded for. If I had to go out and buy I would have took a different path for sure.
 
if they are made from the same material, the hollow bar will be rated similar to the solid being that it is 1/8 larger diameter. the middle of the bar makes vary little affect on the on the performance of the bar. but a big difference on wait. and the stiffness of the bar(not stiff enough or to stiff), cost and fit would be the only reason for going with the solid.
 
Memike,

I found that my 1 1/8 sway bar with stock T-Bars drove like it had weak T-Bars. Flat in corners, but weak spring rate, and shocks were good. That is not improved by cranking up the bars. I upgraded to 340 bars and the handling greatly improved, for me it is optimal. Compared to BMW and Porsche, I have owned, it holds it own, and is enjoyable to drive.
 
My recommendation is to add a factory style anti-sway bar, which will mean switching the LCAs out for ones with tabs on them. It's a pain, but it reduces clearance problems. I do not recommend the tabs that attach with the lower shock bolt. There were clearance problems and ultimately the tab did not stand up to the rigors of canyon carving and broke.

Even adding a stock bar will be a big improvement over no bar. If you plan to use a rear bar, go for a larger than stock front bar. In other discussions, the only consistent difference I've seen between solid and tubular bars of the same diameter is weight.

I added the front bar to my '73 after I had driven it a while. But at the time I added the bar I also did a full front-end rebuild and conversion. I replaced the shocks, control arms, rubber bushings, tie rod ends, and ball joints. I also swapped the SBP drums for BBP disk brakes. Using AutoXCuda's suggestion, I reduced the toe-in and increased the negative camber. I went for all of the positive camber that I could get, which was +2º. Oh yeah, I also went from a 195/70-14 tire on a 4½" rim to a 205/60-15 on a 7" wide rim.

Too many variables changed to evaluate the addition of only the bar. As expected, this really transformed the way the car drove. Corners much flatter and steering turn-in much sharper. The power steering even seems to have developed some "feel" to it. Even though I retained the stock TBs, the ride is better. By better, I mean that the ride is compliant, not stiff, but the car does not float or bounce over undulating pavement.
 
I'll add that tires are a huge issue too. The sidewalls of the stock type tires will roll easilly and switching to a larger wheel with a smaller sidewall will improve handling as dramatically as a sway bar. Also keeping tire pressures on the high side will make a handling (and mileage) improvement.
 
I installed a stock front sway bar and k-frame from a '73 a-body in my '70 dart and it made an improvement but not much. The biggest improvement I got was when I changed out the .870" t bars for 1.03" aftermarket bars. What a difference! I would definitely change the t bars to at least the .920" bars if you are interested in improving the handling as the stock spring rate is just way too soft.
 
Keeping w/ my cheap image, I pulled a sway bar off a Volare that looks like it will work on my 65 Dart. My LCA's don't have sway bar tabs so will attach it to strut rods. Some will say "crazy, will bend the rods", but that is the factory setup in my 65 Newport. Don't follow my path until I verify it works (a back burner project).
 

Tabs are RIDICULOUSLY easy to add to you stock LCA's if you can use a MIG welder. You don't even need to be that good at it for this. If looking stock isn't an issue, you just need a piece of rectangular tubing, probably around 1.5"x3" by about an 1/8" thick. Cut a few pieces off so you have a triangle shaped piece with a 90* corner on one side and a taper on the other, probably a couple inches wide at the top and tapering down to a point. Drill a hole in the flat section on top for the end link. Then just mount the sway bar, add the end links, clamp the new tab onto the LCA and weld it on. I'm AMAZED that guys will pay $200+ dollars for LCA's with factory tabs on them. They're not even welded all that well from the factory, one side only. You could take measurements off a factory pair for placement, or just pay attention to the end links when you're welding them on.

Some of the aftermarket bars are shaped better for tire clearance, and the only big difference in the hollow vs solid bar is weight. The rating on the bar will vary as much from manufacturer to manufacturer as it will from solid to hollow. Just like torsion bars, a bar from one manufacturer may be stiffer than one from another, even with the same diameter, because of the materials used.

And upgrade the torsion bars. Nothing should run /6 bars, they're ridiculously undersprung even for a /6. I'd run at least .92", but all my cars have 1" or greater.
 
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