Tech Advice for Camber Adjustments

Suspension, Steering and Chassis

  1. 1969VADart

    1969VADart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    632
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Local Time:
    8:29 PM
    So I finally bolted everything together on my 69 Dart for the front disc brake conversion. I have installed the PST tubular UCAs. I initially set them at the front mount all the way out and the rear all the way in. That leaves me with a few degrees of positive camber. The toe is good. I took the car out for a shake down and it tracks straight and drives and handles well. Importantly, the brakes work great (that was a great decision).

    But now I’m trying to get the camber at least to neutral. I tried bringing the rears out a little but that didn’t seem to net me anything. So can anyone provide some insight on how to maybe adjust on those UCAs before I simply break down and take it to a shop? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    And thanks to everyone that already weighed in on my other thread on this project.
     
  2. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,669
    Likes Received:
    5104
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    NorCal
    Local Time:
    5:29 PM
    Adjusting the rears so the leg of the UCA is further out would make the camber more positive, not less.

    Adjust the front and rears of the UCA’s so that the legs of the UCA’s are pulled all the way in. If that doesn’t get you negative camber then no adjustment on the UCA’s will and you still have an issue somewhere. If that does get you negative camber, then you can cheat the fronts out to get back some more positive caster.

    Remember that normally, adjusting the UCA’s so that the front leg is pushed all the way out away from the frame and the rear leg is pulled all the way in toward the frame results in obvious negative camber (and the maximum positive caster). That’s why most people then talk about adjusting the rear leg a little further out, making the camber less negative (but also losing some caster).

    Also, when I say to move the leg of the UCA all the way “in” I’m not talking specifically about the position of the adjusting bolt or eccentric, I’m talking about moving the adjuster so the ball joint moves in toward the frame.
     
  3. 1969VADart

    1969VADart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    632
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Local Time:
    8:29 PM
    Appreciate the recommendation. I had set the fronts out and rears in as a starting point based on what I read on FABO and some websites. Then was suggested to tweak on the rears. Never occurred to me to pull the fronts all the way in also, but that makes sense. Then work the adjustment out on the fronts and see what happens. I honestly have not been paying attention to where the cam bolts are as my reference. I have just been focusing on the UCA shaft itself so that I can see that the leg moves in on the frame mount. Thanks again.
     
  4. 67Dart273

    67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    42,969
    Likes Received:
    10531
    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2010
    Location:
    Idaho
    Local Time:
    5:29 PM
    Are you aware of / can you still get the Moog offset bushings?
     
  5. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,669
    Likes Received:
    5104
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    NorCal
    Local Time:
    5:29 PM
    He has PST tubular UCA’s, they should have several degrees of additional positive caster already built in. If they’re to spec that is.

    You can use offset bushings in them, but he really shouldn’t need to.
     
  6. 1969VADart

    1969VADart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    2,344
    Likes Received:
    632
    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2013
    Location:
    Fredericksburg, VA
    Local Time:
    8:29 PM
    What he said. My understanding is I would not need the offset bushings with tubular UCAs. Going to play with the set up over the next couple days and see what happens. Thanks for the feedback.
     
  7. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,669
    Likes Received:
    5104
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    NorCal
    Local Time:
    5:29 PM
    You shouldn't need them. If you find you DO need them, then what you should actually do instead of installing offset bushings is send your current set of UCA's back to PST. Because that's not how they're supposed to work.

    I have offset bushings installed in the Magnumforce UCA's that I have, I was able to get +8° of caster with them while the camber was at -1°. The offset bushings are only good for a couple degrees of caster by themselves.
     
  8. turbofreek

    turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    431
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2009
    Location:
    kansas city, mo
    Local Time:
    7:29 PM
    i am so confused by what adjusters you guys are speaking of on the upper control arms. i have tubular qa1 uppers. how do i fix the massive camber issue i have on my pass side?
     
  9. 72bluNblu

    72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

    Messages:
    10,669
    Likes Received:
    5104
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2008
    Location:
    NorCal
    Local Time:
    5:29 PM
    The mounting bolts for the UCA’s have eccentrics on them, the bolts are the adjusters. Turning the eccentric moves the ends of the UCA’s in and out with respect to the frame rail.
     
    • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
    • turbofreek

      turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

      Messages:
      1,233
      Likes Received:
      431
      Joined:
      Mar 2, 2009
      Location:
      kansas city, mo
      Local Time:
      7:29 PM
      okay. i bought new ones but didnt realize that is what adjusted the camber at all. so pass side move the rear adjuster washers/offset more towards the inside center of the car correct?
       
      Last edited: Jun 22, 2020
    • turbofreek

      turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

      Messages:
      1,233
      Likes Received:
      431
      Joined:
      Mar 2, 2009
      Location:
      kansas city, mo
      Local Time:
      7:29 PM
      i been staring at this dang thing for an hour. my wheel travel up and down is like this /---/. do i want it \---/ or do i want it /---\ for drag racing? this a 1500rwhp car. so its gotra be stable at 160+
       
    • 72bluNblu

      72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

      Messages:
      10,669
      Likes Received:
      5104
      Joined:
      Nov 28, 2008
      Location:
      NorCal
      Local Time:
      5:29 PM
      You want your camber close to zero for drag racing. So, tires basically strait up and down |—-| . If you have positive camber on one side and negative on the other you need to get things equaled out.

      Pictures of your suspension set up would help, especially since your suspension is no where near stock. If we don’t know what you’re running it’s gonna be hard to help. If you’re running QA1 UCA’s with stock spindles and somehow have coilovers and a rack grafted into that your geometry could be pretty screwed up, sorry to say. Is this a kit? Or something home-brewed?
       
      • Agree Agree x 1
      • turbofreek

        turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

        Messages:
        1,233
        Likes Received:
        431
        Joined:
        Mar 2, 2009
        Location:
        kansas city, mo
        Local Time:
        7:29 PM
        i just need this to last the race season. going to spindle over winter to gain much needed travel.

        20200623_201119.jpg

        20200623_201035.jpg
         
      • turbofreek

        turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

        Messages:
        1,233
        Likes Received:
        431
        Joined:
        Mar 2, 2009
        Location:
        kansas city, mo
        Local Time:
        7:29 PM
        it was originally built with stock uppers on it. i added the qa1 uca to the equation and thats my fault. it is plenty adjustable but its to much for my non suspension understanding self.
         
        Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
      • kursplat

        kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        2,619
        Likes Received:
        1703
        Joined:
        Aug 24, 2010
        Location:
        so cal
        Local Time:
        5:29 PM
        looks like a QA1 K-member with their upper and lower A-arms? so are the tops of the coil overs just where the stock shocks bolt to? if so, you've moved all the suspension loads from the lower control arm and K-member to some not too thick sheet metal that wasn't designed to support the front of the car. i hope there's J-bars and bracing at the top of the coil overs
         
      • turbofreek

        turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

        Messages:
        1,233
        Likes Received:
        431
        Joined:
        Mar 2, 2009
        Location:
        kansas city, mo
        Local Time:
        7:29 PM
        no itnis not a qa1 k member or lower setup. it is a custom made one.
        coilovers are mounted to the rollcage down bars.
         
      • 67Dart273

        67Dart273 FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        42,969
        Likes Received:
        10531
        Joined:
        Oct 14, 2010
        Location:
        Idaho
        Local Time:
        5:29 PM
        Howinhell did we go from 69somethingDart to Turbofreek?
         
      • kursplat

        kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        2,619
        Likes Received:
        1703
        Joined:
        Aug 24, 2010
        Location:
        so cal
        Local Time:
        5:29 PM
        i'm using that on my wife next time an argument goes off the rails :rofl:
         
      • 72bluNblu

        72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        10,669
        Likes Received:
        5104
        Joined:
        Nov 28, 2008
        Location:
        NorCal
        Local Time:
        5:29 PM

        Nope. No part about that I’d touch with a 10 ft pole. That’s not street or track worthy.
         
      • turbofreek

        turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

        Messages:
        1,233
        Likes Received:
        431
        Joined:
        Mar 2, 2009
        Location:
        kansas city, mo
        Local Time:
        7:29 PM
        lower control arm is in the exact mounting points etc as the stock lca. it is just built to use a coilover and not break. doesnt hve the u/j shape of the stock lca. it looks odd but its really close on the camber, perfect caster and toe is easy to adjust once i get the camber right. its like 2° off and i have no idea which way to go with it.
         
      • turbofreek

        turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

        Messages:
        1,233
        Likes Received:
        431
        Joined:
        Mar 2, 2009
        Location:
        kansas city, mo
        Local Time:
        7:29 PM
        so im at 1.2° at ride and 0° on near full extension both sides. not to shabby. set toe at 1/8 in. friday put it on digital rack and see how close.

        sorry didnt mean to highjack this thread.
         
      • 1969VADart

        1969VADart FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

        Messages:
        2,344
        Likes Received:
        632
        Joined:
        Aug 19, 2013
        Location:
        Fredericksburg, VA
        Local Time:
        8:29 PM
        Hey, if the Turbofreek gets some answers, I am okay with it. At least he didn't respond to a thread from four years ago to try to get an answer.

        I think I have solved my problems and the thing is coming together nicely now.
         
        • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
        • 72bluNblu

          72bluNblu FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

          Messages:
          10,669
          Likes Received:
          5104
          Joined:
          Nov 28, 2008
          Location:
          NorCal
          Local Time:
          5:29 PM
          I’m not talking about the lower control arm. Everything attached to that rack and pinion is a nightmare. 3” spacers between the steering arms and the rack? The rack significantly out in front of the ends of the steering arms? Welded constructed steering arms that are that thin? Nope.

          That steering set up is completely unsafe. And not salvageable in my opinion, not one part of it is a good idea. That’s before we even consider bump steer or Ackerman angles.
           
        • turbofreek

          turbofreek batcrap crazy racing team

          Messages:
          1,233
          Likes Received:
          431
          Joined:
          Mar 2, 2009
          Location:
          kansas city, mo
          Local Time:
          7:29 PM
          that thin? 1/2 billet steel is to thin? the spacers are for bumpsteer, the rack is on the inside of the actual wheel.
          my driver side is near perfectly aligned. turning radius is exactly as the original torsion setup was. akerman angle everyone speaks of is fine even better than most modern cars today.

          this only needs to last the summer anyways. going spindles/struts over winter to gain much needed extention travel. 5in suck for street racing on small tires.
           
        • kursplat

          kursplat FABO Gold Member FABO Gold Member

          Messages:
          2,619
          Likes Received:
          1703
          Joined:
          Aug 24, 2010
          Location:
          so cal
          Local Time:
          5:29 PM
          :lol: my first thought was "there's a season for street racing?"
           
          • Thanks! Thanks! x 1
          • Agree Agree x 1
          1. This site uses cookies to help personalize content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
            By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.