The horse is dead

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Damnit..
 
Any difficulties I've had with Hughes they took care of for me. 2 sets of their 1.6 rockers. 1st set direct with Hughes - 2nd set thru Mancini - they had the! sharper price. 1st set had issues, mismatched hold downs & incomplete rockers. Dave Hughes took care of it. - 2nd set still on shelf - they are complete & looked good upon initial inspection . Most help you hire today will make you old & grumble. - Mine were on 60779 Edelbrock heads - not iron.

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Actually, I'm starting to think they gave us both bad advice and should have told you to pull in your adjusters. Those d*** things aren't supposed to be out that far on their best day...
Here's a picture of mine, possibly depicting both of our problems. You can see, in one color is my problem, where I had to add washers under the hold down nuts to get, then to drive the shaft down all the way against the pedestals...
Their advice was run it....
In the other color you can see where I've circled the adjusters, and mine are way up and out, and the ball is very close to the rocker. As a matter of fact, I need to make sure there's clarence, where the pushrod doesn't actually hit the rocker...
Instead of Bing a church and uh, not asking for more information he could've. How'd you text him that picture? And he would have told you if he had any mopar knowledge that those adjusters were out vastly too far and saved you a couple hundred bucks, and you'd still have some pretty good rockers...
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Any difficulties I've had with Hughes they took care of for me. 2 sets of their 1.6 rockers. 1st set direct with Hughes - 2nd set thru Mancini - they had the! sharper price. 1st set had issues, mismatched hold downs & incomplete rockers. Dave Hughes took care of it. - 2nd set still on shelf - they are complete & looked good upon initial inspection . Most help you hire today will make you old & grumble.

View attachment 1716361762
I also believe the rockers are top-notch, and mine work great to this day, but had I listened to Dave, or whoever gave me that off-the-cuff? Terrible advice... I wouldn't have any motor right now...
 
I'm usually not one to bash a company, especially one I've used parts from before, but I'll never buy from Hughes Engines ever again. I purchased their 1.6 roller rockers for my 340 with J heads. There was no way you could put a push rod in because it rubbed on the cylinder head so bad it didn't line up with the ball on the rocker arm. He got mad at me when I was talking to him on the phone because his Parts didn't fit my engine. Then told me to send them back. Then I get charged 136.00 restocking fee, plus I lost shipping back, and tax. So all in all I lost about $200 to return rocker arms that didn't fit. But apparently that was my fault.
Most in the mopar community know you wont get a warm fuzzy feeling from speaking with Dave.

That said, having to clearance heads for pushrod clearance isnt much different than having to cut pistons for valve clearance, or machining heads to avoid coil bind when assembling and engine. It is just part of the deal.

Sorry you lost money on the deal though.
 
I didn’t read the entire thread but maybe the guy is an asshole because of stuff just like this.

Clearly the OP is not an engine builder. He bought rockets he thought would bolt on. 99% of them do not, and the ones that do still need work.

I run 1.6 rockers and they didn’t fit either. Why? Because the heads were designed for 1.5 rockers. That means the pushrod tunnels and everything else is wrong for anything but a 1.5 rocker.

You not only need to clearance the tunnels for 1.6 rockers you need to correct the geometry.

That’s SOP.

So it’s not bad parts or customer service. It’s a guy that’s been in this business a long time. And he’s been dealing with guys who are unqualified to build engines trashing his parts.

This is on the OP.
Yep I know nothing about engines. I'll let you know how it runs on the dyno. Also Im not trashing his parts. I have three Hughes cams that work great. I'm trashing his shitty attitude. Like yours now piss off.
 
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Actually, I'm starting to think they gave us both bad advice and should have told you to pull in your adjusters. Those d*** things aren't supposed to be out that far on their best day...
Here's a picture of mine, possibly depicting both of our problems. You can see, in one color is my problem, where I had to add washers under the hold down nuts to get, then to drive the shaft down all the way against the pedestals...
Their advice was run it....
In the other color you can see where I've circled the adjusters, and mine are way up and out, and the ball is very close to the rocker. As a matter of fact, I need to make sure there's clarence, where the pushrod doesn't actually hit the rocker...
Instead of Bing a church and uh, not asking for more information he could've. How'd you text him that picture? And he would have told you if he had any mopar knowledge that those adjusters were out vastly too far and saved you a couple hundred bucks, and you'd still have some pretty good rockers...View attachment 1716361771View attachment 1716361773
I did crank out the adjusters all the way, and put shims under the shafts. I may have been inclined to work with them until Dave's bad attitude. So i just "sent them back" like he told me to.
 
Yep I know nothing about engines.


I didn’t say you don’t know anything. What I said was your lack of experience is the issue.

I’ll say this again. If you bolted on ANY roller rocker and don’t at least check the geometry you need to have someone else do it.

B3racingengines.com has four tech articles dealing with this.

Shimming the shaft up is about useless. They need to go up and away from the valve.
 
I didn’t read the entire thread but maybe the guy is an asshole because of stuff just like this.

Clearly the OP is not an engine builder. He bought rockets he thought would bolt on. 99% of them do not, and the ones that do still need work.

I run 1.6 rockers and they didn’t fit either. Why? Because the heads were designed for 1.5 rockers. That means the pushrod tunnels and everything else is wrong for anything but a 1.5 rocker.

You not only need to clearance the tunnels for 1.6 rockers you need to correct the geometry.

That’s SOP.

So it’s not bad parts or customer service. It’s a guy that’s been in this business a long time. And he’s been dealing with guys who are unqualified to build engines trashing his parts.

This is on the OP.

I didn’t say you don’t know anything. What I said was your lack of experience is the issue.

I’ll say this again. If you bolted on ANY roller rocker and don’t at least check the geometry you need to have someone else do it.

B3racingengines.com has four tech articles dealing with this.

Shimming the shaft up is about useless. They need to go up and away from the valve.
Right, then the roller tip wouldn't have lined up. It was perfect on the valve. The only way was to pull the heads, pull them all apart and machine a minimum of 1/8 inch out of the holes. Which I wasn't willing to do. So it is what it is. They're gone and I'll buy something else. Probably 1.5s because I don't have time to pull my heads and clearance them.
 
I didn’t read the entire thread but maybe the guy is an asshole because of stuff just like this.

Clearly the OP is not an engine builder. He bought rockets he thought would bolt on. 99% of them do not, and the ones that do still need work.

I run 1.6 rockers and they didn’t fit either. Why? Because the heads were designed for 1.5 rockers. That means the pushrod tunnels and everything else is wrong for anything but a 1.5 rocker.

You not only need to clearance the tunnels for 1.6 rockers you need to correct the geometry.

That’s SOP.

So it’s not bad parts or customer service. It’s a guy that’s been in this business a long time. And he’s been dealing with guys who are unqualified to build engines trashing his parts.

This is on the OP.

Regardless of whether it's on the OP or not there really is no justification for Dave being an asshole to people. It takes self-restraint for sure but you lose nothing by having some level of respect and patience for people no matter how stupid they are. People will be a lot more open and willing to learn if they aren't talked down to like they're a waste of time. Ah well, not like machinists and mechanics are known to have great people skills anyway.
 
Yep I know nothing about engines. I'll let you know how it runs on the dyno. Also Im not trashing his parts. I have three Hughes cams that work great. I'm trashing his shitty attitude. Like yours now piss off.
And this is where I'm at in life as well. I've had this yahoo on Ignore for years now....
I don't deal with people's attitudes, no matter how great their knowledge is, or they think is....
They've been around it too long. They're burnout on it. They know too much about it, and instead of helping people, they just annoy people....
I say thanks for nothing and put them on ignore...
 
Yes to B3, surprised it took 3 pages. I had no problems with 1.6 rockers, but I have trick flow heads and B3 correction. No grinding anything. Hughes doesn't even have a shop now, or so I have heard.
 
And this is where I'm at in life as well. I've had this yahoo on Ignore for years now....
I don't deal with people's attitudes, no matter how great their knowledge is, or they think is....
They've been around it too long. They're burnout on it. They know too much about it, and instead of helping people, they just annoy people....
I say thanks for nothing and put them on ignore...
I didn't realize there's an ignore button. Thanks!
 
Wow! Now you all have me concerned. Hughes custom ground (or had it done) a cam for my 225. I talked to Dave and messaged him several times through the process. I told him what I was building and what I wanted to achieve. He recommended the grind, springs and valve size. He made it quite clear to me about the break-in, using single springs for the first runs then installing the inner springs. Dave made it clear about using the special break in oil, etc. To some, his communication could come across a condescending, in my case, I was asking questions and for advice, so his shortness during the conversation was taken as "that's who he is." My 20 years in the Air Force exposed me to these types of individuals almost on a daily basis. Most were officers, or as Sgt. Micklin would say "college boys!"
Norm
BTW, I'm getting close to firing up the 225, as it is now on the test run stand I've made.
I believe the quality of his parts and his knowledge is top notch. It's his attitude that makes him hard to deal with.

Then again Consider how many people he has to talk to in a day and deal with.

There is a difference in telling him "the rockers you sold me don't alingn right" and saying "I'm having alignment issues with your rockers, what do you suggest I do to make them work?

It's how you approach him, but he is going to talk to you like he owns the place, which he does.

I talked to him about a specific cam grind for an engine I was building. It had too much overlap for my static compression ratio and not enough dynamic compression. He told me I wouldn't be happy with It's performance and suggested a custom grind to tighten it up and bump up the dynamic compression.

While I didn't buy a cam from him, I valued his advice and glad I didn't buy a cam that I wouldn't be happy with.

His cams have a reputation for being better than anything you can buy out of a parts catalog.

Consider how much a Jones cam costs and the knowledge and experience he has in getting you a cam that suits you and your engine.
 
I believe the quality of his parts and his knowledge is top notch. It's his attitude that makes him hard to deal with.

Then again Consider how many people he has to talk to in a day and deal with.

There is a difference in telling him "the rockers you sold me don't alingn right" and saying "I'm having alignment issues with your rockers, what do you suggest I do to make them work?

It's how you approach him, but he is going to talk to you like he owns the place, which he does.

I talked to him about a specific cam grind for an engine I was building. It had too much overlap for my static compression ratio and not enough dynamic compression. He told me I wouldn't be happy with It's performance and suggested a custom grind to tighten it up and bump up the dynamic compression.

While I didn't buy a cam from him, I valued his advice and glad I didn't buy a cam that I wouldn't be happy with.

His cams have a reputation for being better than anything you can buy out of a parts catalog.

Consider how much a Jones cam costs and the knowledge and experience he has in getting you a cam that suits you and your engine.
I didn't give him any attitude. He started talking to me like I'm a child, then told me to use the correct nouns. That's when I started getting a little irritated. It's hard not to reflect back to a person that crap they start throwing at you. I definitely bit my tongue. The guy I talked to about returning them was fine. Tom maybe ?
 
I don't care how much **** the guy knows or doesn't. If yer an asshole you shouldn't be dealing with the public in any way shape or form. Obviously keeping staff is an issue as well or he wouldn't be on a phone. Sounds like he needs a "learnin'" helmet.
 
And this is where I'm at in life as well. I've had this yahoo on Ignore for years now....
I don't deal with people's attitudes, no matter how great their knowledge is, or they think is....
They've been around it too long. They're burnout on it. They know too much about it, and instead of helping people, they just annoy people....
I say thanks for nothing and put them on ignore...


You blocked me because you are a crybaby.

You talk like you know but you are just a poser.
 
Regardless of whether it's on the OP or not there really is no justification for Dave being an asshole to people. It takes self-restraint for sure but you lose nothing by having some level of respect and patience for people no matter how stupid they are. People will be a lot more open and willing to learn if they aren't talked down to like they're a waste of time. Ah well, not like machinists and mechanics are known to have great people skills anyway.


Ok. You deal with **** like this on the phone for DECADES and see how you do.

I’m not defending Dave.

I’m saying the OP is over his head and he’s blaming Hughes.

Look how he responded to me. That speaks volumes.

I told him the truth and he sniveled but Dave is the bad guy. Got it.

And then jpar jumped in with his vast experience in jacking stuff up. Another clown.
 
I've dealt with Mr. Hughes for decades. I can honestly say I have had not one disagreement with the man. Am I lucky? I don't think so. I, too, have assembled many engines. I would say "built" but I don't have machines in-house. When discussing possible issues with Dave, he is always to the point. Time is money, I know how much time is lost in a day with phone calls of "what ifs" and "will this work?" and "why don't this work with this?" 99.9% of the time people have made mistakes, don't want to own up to them or look stupid, and put it back on who they get their parts from. I think the OP can put me on ignore. Sounds like he has a mutual "I'm not wrong" friend in J-Fag.......
 

I didn't give him any attitude. He started talking to me like I'm a child, then told me to use the correct nouns. That's when I started getting a little irritated. It's hard not to reflect back to a person that crap they start throwing at you. I definitely bit my tongue. The guy I talked to about returning them was fine. Tom maybe ?
May have been the dumb asses he talked to before he got to you.

But I agree he should have a disclaimer on his sight about how his parts fit and work.
 
I've dealt with Mr. Hughes for decades. I can honestly say I have had not one disagreement with the man. Am I lucky? I don't think so. I, too, have assembled many engines. I would say "built" but I don't have machines in-house. When discussing possible issues with Dave, he is always to the point. Time is money, I know how much time is lost in a day with phone calls of "what ifs" and "will this work?" and "why don't this work with this?" 99.9% of the time people have made mistakes, don't want to own up to them or look stupid, and put it back on who they get their parts from. I think the OP can put me on ignore. Sounds like he has a mutual "I'm not wrong" friend in J-Fag.......
Some of you guys have poor reading comprehension skills don't you? Why would I admit I'm wrong for someone else's crappy attitude? I haven't had this problem with countless other people I've called and had questions about different things. Also I'll admit when I'm wrong. I've fucked up, I'll never deny that. I work on muscle cars and old motorcycles for a living. I've been working on mopars for over 30 years. This isn't my first day.
 
My comprehension skills are fine. I'm sure you were absolutely "kosher" with Dave when you told him his parts suck.
 
My comprehension skills are fine. I'm sure you were absolutely "kosher" with Dave when you told him his parts suck.
I never told him his parts suck. Where did you pull that out of? I told him the pushrod are excessively in contact with the heads. He didn't even give me a chance to explain before he started talking to me like I was a retard. But whatever dude, you guys are pals. Good for you.
 
I didn’t read the entire thread but maybe the guy is an asshole because of stuff just like this.

Clearly the OP is not an engine builder. He bought rockets he thought would bolt on. 99% of them do not, and the ones that do still need work.

I run 1.6 rockers and they didn’t fit either. Why? Because the heads were designed for 1.5 rockers. That means the pushrod tunnels and everything else is wrong for anything but a 1.5 rocker.

You not only need to clearance the tunnels for 1.6 rockers you need to correct the geometry.

That’s SOP.

So it’s not bad parts or customer service. It’s a guy that’s been in this business a long time. And he’s been dealing with guys who are unqualified to build engines trashing his parts.

This is on the OP.

You blocked me because you are a crybaby.

You talk like you know but you are just a poser.
Check your arrogance at the door. In other words, guys that act like you do are on par with Dave Hughes and as you can see here, your rude manners are not popular.
Not everyone lives and breathes custom or high performance engines.
I'd bet some of you guys wouldn't have a clue about reskinning seats, bodywork or paint. You'd be as pissed as the OP was if you needed help with something that is outside of your area of expertise and they talked to you like you were an idiot. Stop being an asshole.
So the **** what if the man on the phone has had a bad day or the previous call he took was frustrating. If you can't be reasonably cordial, don't answer the phone. I'd love to see a guy like him try his routine to another man face to face. It would be fun to watch.
Take a casual glance at the questions that get posted on these forums. There are a LOT of members that ask about stuff that others have known about for 50 years. What oil to use, what spark plugs, my car runs rough, why does it knock, why does it overheat, etc...
You don't belittle the guys that don't know . Anyone with any level of decency wouldn't do that.
Sure, if you tell someone something 10 times and they still don't get it, you have a legitimate complaint but to say something stupid like everyone knows that 1.6 rocker arms have clearance issues , it is bullshit. Maybe everyone that has actually tried a mock up knows about it but not everyone has tried. We all have different levels of experience. If a vendor insults or demeans every customer that is new to the hobby, the hobby will die off.
 
Check your arrogance at the door. In other words, guys that act like you do are on par with Dave Hughes and as you can see here, your rude manners are not popular.
Not everyone lives and breathes custom or high performance engines.
I'd bet some of you guys wouldn't have a clue about reskinning seats, bodywork or paint. You'd be as pissed as the OP was if you needed help with something that is outside of your area of expertise and they talked to you like you were an idiot. Stop being an asshole.
So the **** what if the man on the phone has had a bad day or the previous call he took was frustrating. If you can't be reasonably cordial, don't answer the phone. I'd love to see a guy like him try his routine to another man face to face. It would be fun to watch.
Take a casual glance at the questions that get posted on these forums. There are a LOT of members that ask about stuff that others have known about for 50 years. What oil to use, what spark plugs, my car runs rough, why does it knock, why does it overheat, etc...
You don't belittle the guys that don't know . Anyone with any level of decency wouldn't do that.
Sure, if you tell someone something 10 times and they still don't get it, you have a legitimate complaint but to say something stupid like everyone knows that 1.6 rocker arms have clearance issues , it is bullshit. Maybe everyone that has actually tried a mock up knows about it but not everyone has tried. We all have different levels of experience. If a vendor insults or demeans every customer that is new to the hobby, the hobby will die off.
Agreed. I've put together a lot of engines. I've done countless valve jobs on a Serdi, ported heads, decked blocks, etc etc. I've built tons of Shovelheads, Triumphs, and few Panheads too. Even a 6-71 blown 360. Now that **** takes time. But you know what I haven't done? Put 1.6 rockers on a 340.
 
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