Ticking valvetrain noise from fresh engine

cudachris

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The oil groove in the roller lifters is higher than the groove in flat tappet lifters, so I doubt that is your problem. I have heard that blocks that have run roller lifters can have trouble with the lifter bores when going back to flat tappet lifters...something about the roller lifters making the bores out-of-round or worn out. were the lifter bores checked out during the rebuild?


I did indeed pay special attention to the lifter bores with this block. Before finally cleaning the block, I honed all 16 lifter bores with a wheel cylinder hone to clean them up, just a couple of rotations to remove any deposits. Then I checked all 16 lifter bores with a new lifter and light oil (WD40). All bores felt just fine. Could I have looked over something here?
Thanks
Chris
 

Prine

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I am interested to know the Brand and Weight of oil you use.

5W-X is too light...even for a fresh engine.

Use a 10w-x or even straight 30w and report back.

Cheers.
 

LETSRACE

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Hello, spent some time on the engine but the noise is still there.

Here´s what I did, one step at a time:
-new header gaskets (old ones were fine)
-shimmed the rockers up 0.020" to reduce preload
-checkt the rocker bolts length to make sure they dont bottom out
-made a leakdown test, all cylinders are 90-95%
-checked valve height with a straight edge
-switched all rockers from driver to passenger side

I have been driving approx 150miles with this, it´s neither getting worse nor better.

Everytime I start the (cold) engine, the valvetrain is quiet, but the ticking starts after 50-60 seconds.

The engine is running great, nothing else to complain about.

WTF is this!?!

Thanks
Chris

I see you put the new header gaskets in but are the headers hitting the oil pan and not seating on the head? Did you see any dark spots on the old gaskets? You can try to slide a feeler gauge from the bottom and see if it passes the gasket into the header. Or use a small mirror and put under the exhaust ports at the headers with the motor running to see if the mirror fogs up. Some headers hit the oil pan and don't seal 100% I like to use red RTV on mine to make sure they seal. Good luck
 

cudachris

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I am interested to know the Brand and Weight of oil you use.

5W-X is too light...even for a fresh engine.

Use a 10w-x or even straight 30w and report back.

Cheers.

I used mineral 15W40 with Hughes´ high pressure lubricant. Switched to mineral 20W50 with Hughes hp lube today. Seemed to me that it took longer until the ticking apeared, and it was a different tone (brighter) but after a couple of minutes it was just the same as before. Cheers (switched myself to beer tonight to reach different levels of thinking about this problem) :)
 

cudachris

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I see you put the new header gaskets in but are the headers hitting the oil pan and not seating on the head? Did you see any dark spots on the old gaskets? You can try to slide a feeler gauge from the bottom and see if it passes the gasket into the header. Or use a small mirror and put under the exhaust ports at the headers with the motor running to see if the mirror fogs up. Some headers hit the oil pan and don't seal 100% I like to use red RTV on mine to make sure they seal. Good luck

Headers are TTI 1 3/4". They fit very well, do not touch anywhere. The old gaskets where spotless. I use red RTV every time. Thanks :)
 

64physhy

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If it's a "bright" sound, it sounds like a rocker hitting the inside of the valve cover, if I'm correct on what I think you mean by "bright."
 

cudachris

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If it's a "bright" sound, it sounds like a rocker hitting the inside of the valve cover, if I'm correct on what I think you mean by "bright."

My fabricated aluminum covers clear by a mile, and it´s there when the covers are off the head...
 

cudachris

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Took some measurements on the lifters.
Lifter face to oiling groove: 1.160"
oiling groove width: 0.230"






Anyone with a used or new hydraulic lifter at hand, please take a maesurement at your´s and let me know your results.

Thanks so much for you coming up with ideas!

Chris
 

daredevil

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If theres not enough preload maybe you could try a set of lash caps for a little more load to rule that out.
 

gliderider06

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I had a Comp Cam in my 383 that did the same thing. It drove me crazy. Called Comp, they told me I needed Adjustable rockers. I put a set of roller rockers on the motor, the noise was still there, but not as loud. called Comp back, they tell me to re-adjust the rockers. I do it and they still make noise. I call comp back again they then proceed to tell me that their lifters are noisy in the Xtreme energy cams. They would always bleed down. It pissed me off bad, and I don't think I will ever run a Comp cam again.
If you are running a Comp, I would suggest buying a complete set of new lifters from another company and start over.
 

cudachris

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gliderider06, that seems to be the problem. Thanks a lot for this information. Any brand recommended for lifters? So far I compared Comp cams, summit and sealed power (federal mogul) and they all look exactly the same.
 

64physhy

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Chris, I thought I had a Hughes lifter laying around, but couldn't find any. The oil oil groove on the lifter pictured looks a little narrower than the groove on some other hyd lifters.
 

slim 67

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You´ve got no idea how curious I am... :)
Do you still run that engine?
Did you use the same brand of lifters all 3 times?
Thanks,
Chris

I used two sets of comp lifters and now have the lunati cam and lifters in it. It has about 1K miles on it and still runs great but still has that annoying noise in it.
 

grimreaper

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I had a Comp Cam in my 383 that did the same thing. It drove me crazy. Called Comp, they told me I needed Adjustable rockers. I put a set of roller rockers on the motor, the noise was still there, but not as loud. called Comp back, they tell me to re-adjust the rockers. I do it and they still make noise. I call comp back again they then proceed to tell me that their lifters are noisy in the Xtreme energy cams. They would always bleed down. It pissed me off bad, and I don't think I will ever run a Comp cam again.
If you are running a Comp, I would suggest buying a complete set of new lifters from another company and start over.

Had a similar experiene with a 360. Put i the XE268 and it had lifter clatter. Called Comp and went through the same thins as mentioned above with them. Bought new lifters to replace the really noisy ones. Still clattered. After that Comp told me to just live with the noise as it was inherant to the XE cams. Pulled that cam and put in a Lunati 268 and it was immediately quiet.
 

moper

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I know you said you de-glazed the lifter bores... Did you actually measure the ID of them them? Any larger than .906 and they may tick. Any stock type lifter should be quiet, conversly and anti-pump-up or variable duration lifter will be noisey. And they require different preloads. My money's on the bores being a little sloppy. Did I miss where you said what the oil pressure was?
 

dustoff440

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It sounds like a preload problem I have heard of other magnum roller to flat tappet conversions that were noisy lifter and it came down to one of two things, preload as previously mentioned and or/the "correct lifter". The mopar and amc lifter are sold under the same part number but there is a difference between and the amc lifter is the one that worked best, I have also read that the comp cams kit to do the conversion has proven troublesome.
 

cudachris

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I know you said you de-glazed the lifter bores... Did you actually measure the ID of them them? Any larger than .906 and they may tick. Any stock type lifter should be quiet, conversly and anti-pump-up or variable duration lifter will be noisey. And they require different preloads. My money's on the bores being a little sloppy. Did I miss where you said what the oil pressure was?

No I didn´t measure the lifter bores. Used a lifter with wd40 on it to check for any sticking or clearance, but I guess I´m not able to tell 0.002" that way.
Oil pressure is at 75psi when the problem occurs.
 

cudachris

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It sounds like a preload problem I have heard of other magnum roller to flat tappet conversions that were noisy lifter and it came down to one of two things, preload as previously mentioned and or/the "correct lifter". The mopar and amc lifter are sold under the same part number but there is a difference between and the amc lifter is the one that worked best, I have also read that the comp cams kit to do the conversion has proven troublesome.

I have tried to reduce preload by shimming up the rockers by 0.040" , that didn´t change a thing. I still have to use lashcaps to increase preload to rule that out, too.
 

cudachris

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I could live with that noise if I knew it doesn´t do no harm. I´ll just tell anyone I got a solid cam in there...
But will it last? Do the bled lifters decrease my cam size?

Thanks
Chris
 

gliderider06

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If it were me, I would swap out the lifters for some sealed powers and a set of adjustble rockers. It would help with the correct pre-load and lifter bleed down.
 

cudachris

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If it were me, I would swap out the lifters for some sealed powers and a set of adjustble rockers. It would help with the correct pre-load and lifter bleed down.

I compared summit, sealed power and comp lifters. They´re all the same.
 

340sFastback

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Make sure that oil plug is installed and is tight on the rear of the driver's side lifter oil gallery back there by the distributor.
 

cudachris

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That plug is installed... part of my engine building check list...
 

cudachris

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Hughes engines lifters seem to be different, anyone ever tried them?
Thanks
Chris
 

plymouth67

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It may just be those lifter bores are a little more worn than the others. You said you tried less preload... How much do you have now? It requires pushrods, but have you tried more preload? Aftermarket head gaskets may be a thicker compressed distance than factory, adn all else being equal, you may not have enough preload. I find at least .050 is good with stock type tappets, which is what you have.
He said he that he had 0.60"! Then he added shims.
 
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